Difficult to downshift!

[Osiris]

I've been having trouble for the past week or so when I downshift gears. It's even difficult to get the bike into first gear from neutral.
When I downshift I literally have to stomp on the shifter!
I've checked my fluids and whatnot, everything is in order. Has anyone had this problem on their RR?
My next option is to take it into the dealership and have it checked out....

Thanks all!!



p.s._Yes, I am pulling in the clutch!! haha.

[challey]

Mine's a little balky going into first once in a while. It usually helps to put a little pressure on the shifter before pulling in the clutch and engaging the gear.

[BigC]

How many miles are on the bike? You may want to consider switching over to Red Line Heavy Shockproof and see if that helps...

[Beemeridian]

256

[johno]

Mine has started to do it every now and then. I just blip the throttle a bit, and no problem.
Mine has 16,000ks on it.

[Mtnbiker1966]

I have about 50k on my 02 R. I've noticed that over time shifting has become "sticky", but I've never had to stomp on my shifter. I'd be taking it into the dealer to check the clutch, specifically the master cylinder.

[boxermania]

Whatever you do don't bang on the shift lever or you might damage some of the shift dogs and then.....ouch!!!!

Check your oil level and consider running a synthetic.

[Beemeridian]

2345

[jm1515]

Boxer, Doesn't this sound to you like a lack of lube on the clutch splines?

I think you could be right Dave....everything else being mechanically sound, difficult down shifting could be a symptom of needing some lube on the output splines...hopefully not worn out splines tho.
The riders on the ST Forum talk extensively about this....if the OP is indeed shifting properly, then as Boxer says you should never have to bang on the shift lever.
I'd get it checked out ASAP.....

[qfman]

If it's really only 1st that is baulky I would suggest you try pulling the clutch in just before selecting first. Mine has never been able to select first if clutch has been held in for a while.

On the other gears, I never downshift without giving I the rear brake a little squeeze whilst blipping the throttle. It seems to take all stress out of the various drivetrain components.

On the bright side - at 4 years old and 80,000kms, my engine is developing more torque and power than ever before. The ony engine mod - the DJ canectomy!!

Tom

http://members.optusnet.com.au/~lonergans/

[boxermania]

Beemeridian

Interesting call......however, the input shaft of the transmission would be in essence disconected from the engine (the clutch lever pulled), the bike is not running or running very slow with little load on the tranny so lack of lube on the splines has no bearing on the condition.....at least not from my perspective.

BTW, there is Boxer and boxermania (your's truly), I know you probably just shortened my name. Boxer and I are good friends and have meet face to face.......however, I do take exception on being adressed as Boxer........for the uninformed, Phil (Boxer) is much uglier than me....Just kidding Phil.......

[wncbmw]

for the uninformed, Phil (Boxer) is much uglier than me

There's a contest I don't want to judge!

Especially the swimsuit competition!

Seriously, you will find good advice on this board and boxermania knows his stuff.

[joejeweler]

One think i noticed with my RR ('04 with just over 8,000 miles) is that when i back out of the garage in the morning,.......or any parking lot situation,........

...........i have to roll the bike forward a few inches before i can engage 1st gear. As it doesn't happen when stopping at lights (without a rollback)i'm thinking this is normal and simply an idiosyncracy of the bike.

[Arbreacames]

the input shaft of the transmission would be in essence disconected from the engine (the clutch lever pulled), the bike is not running or running very slow with little load on the tranny so lack of lube on the splines has no bearing on the condition....

The point Beemeridian is trying to make is that when the gearbox input shaft splines are dry, downshifting becomes difficult, especially if the splines also have wear. The reason is that the clutch does not slide properly on the splines so it drags a bit even when the lever is fully pulled. Any drag would make downshifting more difficult, so I see Beemeridian's explanation as very plausible (and potentially expensive for Osiris).

[boxermania]

Arbreacames.................

Thanks for the clarification maybe, I didn't explain myself well.

First let's talk about clutch operation - There are two types of pressure plates, the Borg and Beck style (usually referred to as the thre finger type which uses spring pressure to provide the clamping force) and the diaphragm type (a newer design with more clamping force and less effort required to actuate). Our bikes have a diaphram type, which as the clutch lever is depressed, separates from the disc ever so slightly and frees the disc from the flywheel. The flywheel is able to rotate freely and there is no torque transmitted to the geabox. Based on this premise the gears inside the box are not loaded and therefore should be easy for the gear shifts to take place.

II think that your statement that the clutch disc is not free to slide on the splines is somewhat innacurate. If you really look at the mechanism, as the pressure plate releases the clamping force, the disc separates ever so slightly form the flywheel with hardly any radial movement. The only time when that radial movement comes into play is over time when the clutch faces begin to wear down and the disc will move onto the spline (towards the flywheel) half of the distance that the faces wear. I say half of the total wear because the wear on the rear half of the clutch is taken up tby the diengagement of the pressure plate. Also remember that the disc will be moving towards an area that has had no prior use (read, wear).

So, the point is, that there is hardly any axial travel (movement) of the disc on the input shaft splines, the splines are there primarily to transfer the engine torque to the transmission.

[Capt. Blackadder]

I've been having trouble for the past week or so when I downshift gears. It's even difficult to get the bike into first gear from neutral.

Classic symptom of dry clutch splines. Here's one example, a before-and-after. Oh, and if you have a dealership do it, brace yourself, it's not cheap... since about half the bike has to come apart. Doh!

If you'd like to take a shot at it yourself, there's tons of info and helpful riders out there. One guy even made a video of the procedure. Good luck!

[Beemeridian]

678

[cworley5150]

I'm gonna say it is the master or slave cylinder.






That's all. Carry on.

[CycleRob]

Actually it's axial movement of the clutch plate's splined hub sliding towards and away from the engine that may be allowing the splines to jam in the new, unused portion of engagement. This could happen if there's corrosion on the unused, now dry and rusty spline portion. My guess is excess heat, then conductive cooling of the veryhot/hot parts is involved. An overheated clutch warping it's hub out of shape slightly, then cooling down and clamping a now new, tight clearance area.

I've also read about O-rings on the transmission shaft designed to slow down the input shaft's rpm's when the clutch is pulled in for first gear. I just checked the BMW CD-R manual and there is no show or mention of this factory added "improvement" ANYWHERE. Swelling or degradation of these mysterious O-rings could be the actual cause of the shifting problems. My own 2002 1150R with 53K+ miles shift's wonderfully, like a JapBike, all the time.

Note: Link to Manual is a Dial-Up challenging 59MB ZIPfile download posted courtesy of one of our boardmembers and (hint) may not be available in perpetuity.

[Osiris]

It's an 02 with a little over 7k on it. I wouldn't expect any of these types of things to happen with so few miles. The previous owner evidently didn't ride it very ofter at all.
I shall procede to take it into my dealer and have it checked out. I have a full engine warranty for the next three years. Although, this does not cover the clutch and such. Let's hope for the best!!

You guys are the absolute best!!
Thank you so much for all of the great advice.
I'll keep you posted on how things go....