Noticeable Changes Following Valve Adjustment

popgazer · Post by **popgazer** » Tue Mar 14, 2006 1:43 pm

I adjusted the valves last weekend and noticed the following: the bike runs smoother and has much less hickups especially in low rpms

However, and this is IMPORTANT and started right after the VA: at startup, the engine requires several rounds before it fires up. As a result IMHO this is putting a drain on the battery, since each time, now, it's taking more rounds to fire up the engine.

I also noticed that sound got noticeably much deeper.

I used the valve adjustment procedure described on advrider, i.e. 0.15mm intake and 0.30mm exhaust.

So, according to you mechanical gurus, what happened ? Did I lose compression or what ??

Thanks for the input.

Post by **CycleRob** » Wed Mar 15, 2006 12:49 am

popgazer,

Two possibilities . . . .

1) Your battery is on the way out and is not able to supply the full current needed to crank and start a big twin. It will be worse on a cold engine because of the engine oil resistance and longer time between the battery's alternator feedings. Purely coincidental to your V.A. The failing battery may also continuously require a higher charging current that would load the alternator more and give the deeper tone you noticed. Take a cold engine off, digital voltmeter reading of your battery at the upper starter cable and also note the voltage when it's cranking on the starter. If at rest is below 12.4V and cranking voltage is below 10V - - - - - It's the battery.

2) If you removed the sparkplugs before your valve adjustment began, you must do the V.A. again without removing the sparkplugs. I believe OVAD tells you to leave the sparkplugs in until after adjustment, but doesn't explain why. See for yourself:

http://r1150r.smugmug.com/photos/9579219-O.jpg

I'm guessing in advance that you cannot get the feeler gauges "in" on at least 2 valves . . . the same ones you found very loose after you unknowingly dusted the open valve's seat with the sparkplug thread's dislodged carbon.

popgazer · Post by **popgazer** » Wed Mar 15, 2006 10:06 am

Thanks Rob.
I didn't remove the plugs while doing this. I checked the plugs separately and they were pretty clean.
The battery is the original 2002.
I guess I was just surprised that the bike always started at once, but right after the VA, it started to take a few rounds before it fires up.

Also, in OVAD the advised valve clearances are 0.15 mm and 0.3 mm intake and ex, respectively; in Klymer the suggested clearances are 0.17 to 0.23mm intake, and 0.25 mm to 0.31 mm ex.
It seems the intake are significantly off between these two manuals

Why the difference ? and what effect should have ?

Thanks.

Post by **Boxer** » Wed Mar 15, 2006 10:38 am

I wouldn't trust that Clymer manual as far as I could throw it. I have found it in error on more than 2 or 3 items since I've had it.

popgazer · Post by **popgazer** » Wed Mar 15, 2006 11:04 am

Boxer wrote:I wouldn't trust that Clymer manual as far as I could throw it. I have found it in error on more than 2 or 3 items since I've had it.

Another thing, Clymer suggests that TB sync. should be done by dealer only on r1150r! It cites a requirement to use Motronic reader.
Is that true ?
I used the twinmax and procedure described by other fellow bikers.

Post by **Boxer** » Wed Mar 15, 2006 11:08 am

Is that true ?

No. That's one of the several errors I have noted.

Post by **Beemeridian** » Thu Mar 16, 2006 1:00 pm

Arbreacames · Post by **Arbreacames** » Thu Mar 16, 2006 1:23 pm

yellowjacket wrote:Where can I get one?

How about here: http://www.bikechatforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=41567.

popgazer · Post by **popgazer** » Thu Mar 16, 2006 2:06 pm

Arbreacames wrote:
yellowjacket wrote:Where can I get one?
How about here: http://www.bikechatforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=41567.

Nice collection of papers. Thanks a bunch Carlos.

Post by **Boxer** » Thu Mar 16, 2006 2:14 pm

I use this site's collection of material...including JABrooks file which is here somewhere... and over the last 3 years I've copied many of the threads concerning maintenance and upgrades. Also there is significant maintenance articles at the ADVRider and at the IBMWR site. In addition I have, and use, the CD that was circulated a couple years back.

Plus, if you attend the Bash often someone will do a little tech session on something or other. But you have to be awake to catch them early in the morning.

That Clymer manual is probably okay in many areas, but I don't trust it much since I've found so many errors, comparatively speaking. I'm thinking of taking it to the next Bash and giving it away as a door prize.....I mean door stop!

Post by **Beemeridian** » Thu Mar 16, 2006 6:48 pm

gel9001 · Post by **gel9001** » Thu Mar 16, 2006 11:08 pm

Loose valves = hard starting. I know this through reading the literature and experience. Use the OVAD guide and the feeler gauge thickness they recomend. Do the valves again and don't leave them so loose. You're probabely also noticing that the loose valves are noisier.

good luck,

gene

SLEDGE · Post by **SLEDGE** » Fri Mar 17, 2006 7:23 am

Important! The TB's will need to be synced after the valve adjustment. Because the TB synce will change when the valves are adjusted. Good luck don't be afrade go slow, if you were here I would show you.

Post by **Beemeridian** » Fri Mar 17, 2006 10:39 pm

Post by **CycleRob** » Fri Mar 17, 2006 11:24 pm

We strayed away from popgazer's original post about the hard starting . . . . and I'm wondering if it is his geriatric battery that's causing the problem.

yellowjacket, We just boxed, addressed and paper taped it up late today so it goes out to the U.S. Post Office tomorrow morning.

Post by **Beemeridian** » Sat Mar 18, 2006 6:58 am

popgazer · Post by **popgazer** » Sat Mar 18, 2006 1:09 pm

gel9001 wrote:Loose valves = hard starting.

Gene, you may be right. I know that I had the feelers sliding across more easily than they were when I started the adjustment.

The manuals I checked did not state what friction level I should get on the feelers. So, my assumption was that the most important thing is that the valves must be equally spaced, i.e. the friction level is the same regardless of exact amount of spacing. I made sure that the next (thicker) feeler in my set could not fit in the space. Those were 0.2 mm intake and .33 mm exhaust.
If I understand correctly, my setting is probably now 0.19 mm intake and 0.32 mm exhaust. Could this make a difference on how the engine start ?

Cyclrob,
I believe you are right on the battery. When I now run the bike every day, and when the morning temperature is high enough (above 50F), the bike starts just fine.
It's time to replace my 02' battery, anyway.

So, it may well be a compounded effect of loose valves + weaker battery. I am so curious now to go back and do the VA and see how it does. I'll keep you posted. I just need to find time to do it!

Does anybody know the thread/inch count on the valve screw ? That should give us a good idea about turn angle vs. distance.

p.s. The difference between 0.015 mm and 0.2 mm is 50 MICRONS, which is a little less that the thickness of a human hair. Is our engine that precise !? Wow!

Post by **Beemeridian** » Sat Mar 18, 2006 9:45 pm

gel9001 · Post by **gel9001** » Sat Mar 18, 2006 10:03 pm

Popgazer,
You wrote: If I understand correctly, my setting is probably now 0.19 mm intake and 0.32 mm exhaust. Could this make a difference on how the engine start ?

The feeler guages you're supposed to use are: .15mm and .30mm. Redo the valves. Taking your time is the most important part. Have fun with it again. Walk away every few minutes to stay fresh. When I first did my valves I left them too loose. i ended up re-doing them like 4 times before I got it right. Yes its important that clearences be consistent, but they have to be correct most of all make sure you're using above values. Please use the OVAD found here: http://advwisdom.hogranch.com/Wisdom/OVADv2.2.pdf
I've found its the most comprehensive and the most helpful. And yes these engines are pretty sensitive about valve clearences, try to get them spot on. At first it drove me mad, but now I do them every 6K miles and it goes quite quickly.
Good luck,
Gene

daslimpet · Post by **daslimpet** » Sun Mar 19, 2006 9:01 pm

There is a danger in setting valves too tight, but a bit loose is not necessarily bad if both cylinders are dialed in the same.

Within the link:
http://www.ibmwr.org/r-tech/oilheads/R1 ... ixes.shtml

...is a snippet on the great Rob Lentini's experience increasing intake lash moderately, and exhaust lash just a tad. I've set my valves both to EXACT measurements of .15 & .30mm as per the manual, and to the alternative .30m intake and .35mm exhaust. The wider gap setting does improve the idle for me at least, and start-up is no problem. Not surprisingly, the top end did lose some UUMPFFF.

After the first valve adjustment, I did have to significantly rebalance the throttle bodies before it all fell into the zone.

Just another 2 cents!

Good luck!