R1200St Problems???

ranmar850 · Post by **ranmar850** » Sun Mar 05, 2006 6:53 am

Well, Bry, you want to talk about it online?
Just curious?????

Bry · Post by **Bry** » Sun Mar 05, 2006 7:52 am

Well I own a K12R now..

Shame really as the RST was a brilliant bike. Although there were a few passing ugly comments from the Net community, no one actually bagged it in the street, used to get some looks and a lot of positive comments

Initially thought I had tappet noise, around 2800rpm it was "clattery" I guess was the easiest description.After the 10K service I'd mentioned it and ridden another (which was quiet as hell).
Dropped it back and they ordered tensioners, which indeed it sounded like it may have been, but three weeks later they didn't solve the noise...

They took the heads off and found the valve guides oversize... They were great, explained the problem and said I'd need valve guides and they would replace valves also as a precaution. A few more weeks and it probably would've been sorted.

Somehow I just didn't want it back, I have this thing about a 15K ten month old motorcycle having the head stripped because of an error.. I originally looked at the KR before I bought the ST , but thought "hell, the ST's got a proven motor, cheaper on insurance and I'll tour"...

Well it failed, the insurance is a wee bit dearer on the KR and I went to Albany once.. so...

The guys at the dealership were great! They understood my frustration, were even willing to lend me a bike. I mentioned wanting out of it and rode the KR, they made a fantastic deal! I took it..

The motor's not as proven I admit, not as practical as the St also, but it's fun and the power... *evil evil chuckle...

I'm still venting at BMW main, can't believe I ended up with such an error whilst their dealer and service dept was superb,but the product should not have had such an error, we pay premium no? I figure that allows me to vent slightly...

Bry

Post by **DJ Downunder** » Sun Mar 05, 2006 8:16 am

Congrats on the beast...

I've not riden one..(yet)...but..I just killed myself ten times playing Tourist Trophy on the Playstation...

I had to win a race riding the K1200R to win the bike...geees it's fast..

DJ

Marcus · Post by **Marcus** » Sun Mar 05, 2006 10:20 am

Hey Bry,

I have the exact same feelings regarding my clutch/spline issue that happened when my bike had only 4000 miles on it. The dealership was fantastic about getting to the root of the problem and fixing it. But it does taint your experience somewhat when your new, premium motorcycle with engineering excellence, etc, etc, has to go in the shop to replace a clutch and drive shaft.

Funny thing is, I took a K1200R out for a test ride yesterday and HOLY SCHMOLY!!!! That thing was fun!

EDIT: Oops! I forgot to mention that I have an R1150R and not the ST.

Marcus

vinman · Post by **vinman** » Sun Mar 05, 2006 11:25 am

So, is this thread to suggest that the R1200ST is not as well figured out as BMW would like us to think? I thought it was the same motor as that in the GS just tuned slightly differently.

I have been considering trading or selling my roadster for either the ST or a Ducati ST3. I was leaning towards the BMW due to the reputation for reliability. After being on this board and owning one for the past 4 years I'm starting to think that they are really not any more reliable than any other manufacturer.

Post by **bimrluvr** » Sun Mar 05, 2006 1:30 pm

Sorry for the hijack, but...
vinman,

you are looking at a VERY difficult choice. The Duc ST3 is definitely an excellent alternative to the R12ST, and you may be right about the reliability of one vs. the other. Probably the main difference is the anal attitude that BMW owners tend to have regarding maintenance. That same attitude about maintenance should prove to make the ST3 equally reliable. My opinion anyway, FWIW.

Bry · Post by **Bry** » Sun Mar 05, 2006 5:29 pm

Vinman,

Not caning the model, the ST is one of the best bikes I've owned, shame I got the friday one. I was more pissed that I got one that had an assembly issue. Would I own another? yes... It truly is a great point to point machine.

As Bimlvr said some BMW owners are "anal about maintainance".. that I guess would be me, I wasn't prepared to have that ST back. If I didn't get the KR I suppose I'd have looked seriously at another ST... just not that one.

Over the years I've had ten of them, the KR makes 11.. Never had a major fault, an O2 sensor on the KRS at 40K I considered fair wear and tear.

I guess here's my point, in the KR brochure I've got, and reread and thousand times... (wednesday seems so far away

)

"..the legendary reliability you expect from BMW Motorrad."

Bry

peterbulgar · Post by **peterbulgar** » Sun Mar 05, 2006 8:20 pm

"..the legendary reliability you expect from BMW Motorrad."

My opinion is that over the years that reliability has become more legend than real. When I purchased my first BMW back in 1974 I told myself that part of the premium I was paying to own a BMW was for a long life over many miles and complete reliability. I still have the bike and I wasn't disappointed.

The good news is that BMW is probably no less reliable than motorcycles produced by other manufacturers - even the Japanese have occasional dog models and random problems. The bad news, however, is that you can't justify the extra bucks for a BMW by pointing to superior reliability. All new motorcycles are quite reliable, and any manufacturer who consistently produced bikes that had short lives or were unreliable would soon be out of business. So, the vast majority of new BMWs will be reliable over many years and many miles, just like new Hondas, Harleys, or KTMs. There will be a few bikes produced by every manufacturer that have premature failures, and nowdays BMW is as likely as any other brand to have such problems.

I can't blame you a bit for getting rid of your ST. Chances are that after the repair the bike will be fine for many years and many tens of thousands of miles. But, I can understand why you would never trust a bike that had such an early failure - I'd feel the same way.
peter '73 R75/5, '04 r1150RA

vinman · Post by **vinman** » Mon Mar 06, 2006 5:54 pm

I agree that the "legendary reliability" is more marketing hype these days. For me, purchasing a motorcycle has come down to personal preference (style & fit), purpose, features, performance, and price. It seems that reliability is a non-issue as there isn't any major manufacturer that really stands out as the leader.

leno · Post by **leno** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 5:33 am

Hey time to throw my tupence in the ring. I've had 4 BMW'S over the last 7 years and not had a problem with any of them. They all have been sold because I wanted to change not because there was anything wrong with them. Before then I had a selection of Jap bikes and every single one of them faults like corrosion, bairing faulures, exhurst rot and electrics. All of them were worn out and killed by my daily grind to work. Engines have been fine but the bikes have fallen apart around them. The only bike that seems to be able to handle the abuse is the BMW. A big factor in this in my mind is the BMW bike shops here in the UK which seem to a cut above the normal. That and the fact the bikes are built to be riden in the real world not the sun baked smooth ribbon Okay I can see that some bikes here have had problems but for me I don't think that there is another bike which can take the punishment day in day out and come back for more.

Post by **Deans BMW** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 10:41 am

Geez you guys. The introduction of the R1200 series as in first the R1200GS and followed up with the R1200RT then thew R1200ST and the HP2 have been the most trouble free in BMW's motorcycle history, not only that, they have also been the most trouble free industry wide, including all other bike mfgrs. Brys ST problems were a fluke, nothing more. The R1200ST and RT use the same engine/tranny/final drive units and have been as trouble free from a warrenty stand point as as anything in the industry. Dealers have full incentive to perform warrenty work as BMW pays full shop labor rate and full retail for parts performed under warrenty, the BMW authorized service mgr has a no questions asked authorization of up to something like $1000.00. BMW encourages a warrenty repair if needed.

vinman · Post by **vinman** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 5:48 pm

Dean,

Not debating your data but where do you get it? I'm curious. Your source would be a great help in buying decisions.

For me a new bike choice has come down to the BMW R1200ST, the Ducati ST3 and I am even considering the Triumph Sprint ST. The BMW is teh most expensive of the three by a couple thousand. And that doesn't include the saddle bags yet! That will be another $800. When I was at Bob's I mentioned this to the salesman and asked him to sell me on the R1200ST. I wanted to know what I would be getting with the BMW that the Duc and Triumph don't offer. He was speechless. He didn't even try the reliability arguement. He just said he didn't know. Jeez, I gave the guy every opportunity.

Now I'm not letting a bad salesman dissuade me from the 1200ST. But I'm looking for a good reason why the much higher price tag is worth it.

Paul Mihalka · Post by **Paul Mihalka** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 6:28 pm

Well, let me see what you get in the BMW and don't get with the Duck or the Triumph. - More forgiving handling. The Telelever front can absorb a lot of rider error or mishaps. - Better combination of handling AND comfort. - Easy owner maintenance on most things. - Better warranty. - More dealers compared to Duck and Triumph. - Parts availability much better on BMW. I am with a BMW and Ducati dealer. I know. - Less depreciation on BMW.
The price difference may be less than you think. BMW now has 4.9% financing AND $500.- rebate on a '05 R1200ST.

vinman · Post by **vinman** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 6:41 pm

Thank you Paul. Good logic. Financing isn't part of the consideration as I plan on buying the bike outright. I assume you work at Battley's. I thought they both handled very well and were comfortable. But then again I only had a 15 minute test ride on either, so they were comfortable for 15 minutes.

This was an interesting find for a comparison.
http://www.danburybmw.com/new_vehicle_c ... 4178&go=Go
But the price of the BMW doesn't include ABS or saddle bags. So that's about another $1700. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Post by **Deans BMW** » Tue Mar 07, 2006 8:19 pm

Paul knows where of he speaks. My data comes from industry sources that I had best not devulge.