Food For Thought...

[dallara]

Here's some interesting food for thought...

SuperMoto is catching on in the United States, and SuperMotard is extremely popular in Europe. Right now there are basically two classes on both sides of the pond - a class set up for the 450's, and a supposed "Open" class for anything bigger than 500cc... The rules are slightly different on opposite sides of the Atlantic, but the basic concept is the same.

What I propose is this - 3 classes, as follows:

1.) Up to 500cc's

2.) Over 500cc's and up to 800cc's

3.) A true "Open" class with engines over 800cc's

Why?

To build the sport and give us some really interesting races to watch.

How will this accomplish this?

Well, we have the new BMW HP-2 1200 on the ground, and BMW says they are going to race it. We have the KTM 950 Supermoto in the pipeline and on the way, and KTM is already heavily involved in SuperMoto/SuperMotard. Now Ducati shows their 1000cc HyperMotard concept bike, and word is that the Japanese have similar bikes in the works, and Triumph has their Speed Triple, which is nearly a SuperMotard style bike...

Can you imagine a bunch of really talented riders - from road racing, moto-cross, etc. - all lining up and careening around a SuperMoto/SuperMotard course on these 100+ horsepower beasts?

Right now the Japanese and KTM dominate SuperMoto in the USA, and Aprilia and KTM own the show in Europe, but if the AMA or FIM were smart enough to instigate true "open" classes you would suddenly have the sport open to a bunch of new bikes from other manufacturers, and one whale of a show to boot!

Imagine watching guys like Jeff Ward, Ben Bostrom, Doug Henry, and some of the Euros backin' these big twins and a triple or two into corners, and *SMOKING* the tires coming off 'em?

Sure, it would be racing bulls inside of China closets, but isn't that what it's all about... Having machines way too powerful for the track they are on so that rider skill is what's most important?

I think it would be one hell of a hoot, and a genuine crowd pleaser, and the first sanctioning body to do it is going to make headlines!

Come on, AMA... Be the leader for a change! Hell, who knows... Maybe one day the Daytona 200 could be an "Open" SuperMoto race!

Cheers!

Dallara

[darthrider]

One thing it would do here in the U.S. is level the playing field a bit.

Our SM's, at least the big pro events (I've seen one in person and several on the tube) seem heavily tilted in favor of the MX guys. Nothing against the MX guys, but when the majority of an invitaional field are top rated MXers, the engines are limited to 450CC's and the bikes are mainly converted MX bikes and the tracks are much more dirt than pavement...is that really "heads-up racing"? Throw in those phoney-assed "city jumps" and it appears more circus than serious race. Maybe I was overly biased by the X Games fiasco...how 'bout those mandatory pit stops?!

Of course you have to discount Old Man Wardy who apparently can win anything on anything!

While we're going at Allan's new Unlimited Class (Hoochie Mama!) let's make the tracks more European in design and stop stacking the deck with MX racers to ensure MX racer dominance.

I think what's happened here, and it may be a good thing "big picture-wise", is that they are trying to draw the MX guys out into something new. They know dirt and have a couple of Jap 450's in every garage and the conversion kits are cheap. And they might be hesitant to come out and race a "big bike" (600+) against SM pros on predominently paved tracks with much less dirt.

I'm not advocating a thinly disguised road race and call it SM but surely we can do better than what we've seen so far. Maybe if/when SM truly has it's own identity in the U.S. theses stacked decks will go away on their own.

[collyers]

I think they should lose the dirt sections altogether - or just have a token whoop section and 1 long flattrack-style turn. I think the Uber-moto class (700cc & up) would be silly, only because the whole point of SM is that it takes place on a very tight "parking lot/city scape" atmospheres, where it's about the fans getting close to the action - as opposed to MX, where you have to drive to Lake Whitney or Unadilla to see it (boonies), they can do a SM race in a ski area parking lot (Copper Mtn) or in the shadow of Reunion Arena (your stadium name HERE).
A 900cc, 125BHP twin would be too heavy, too powerful, and too scary to ride in a tight track like the tracks in Europe and here. This past season, the AMA opened a Light (250) class, and that made it a lot easier for Joe Schmoe to go racing. Wheels, Tires, a front brake & a new front fender - I'm Johnny Supermoto!
What I'd like to see is the return of the 'season opener at the Astrodome', only have a Supermoto series in major INDOOR stadiums, where you can see everything from your beer & nacho encrusted seat. If they can do a shorttrack & a TT in the (comparably) small Astrodome, they can do SM. But big engines - doubtful. As it is, the 450 class is consistently faster around the track than the 660/700 factory KTMs. The 250s just don't go as hard as the 450s, and the 620/660s have too much mass to toss around. I have a pic somewhere of a FACTORY KTM 950 SM racer, and they got it down to 375lbs, w/ 110HP (Adventure motor, tweaked). GIANT.
Honda, Yamaha, and Suzuki have SM bikes you can buy today (only the Suzuki 400 comes to the US), but the Honda & Yamaha 660s are 100lbs heavier than my lowly 325lb 2002 Duke II. And only have 45HP.
The Aprilias will be simply amazing, with a price to match. For us "real world" riders who dig SM styling & street hooliganism (along with 45+ YO wisdom + common sense), the Ducati, the 950 SM, and the possibilities of the HP-GS are VERY attractive. A comfortable (sit-up) riding position, lots of grunting torque (giant single or big V-twin), great handling & light weight..... who wouldn't ride that 10 times over a MotoGP-style 1200S or MV Augusta? The times are a-changin', and we're getting back to basics: fun, tractable power, fun, handling, comfort, and fun. Did I mention fun?

[dallara]

Great points, Collyers... As always.

But...

While I agree with you that the new 250 class is a great boon to the sport, and that *SOME* tracks would be too tight for my proposed "Open" class, consider this...

Your analogy to the old Houston short track and TT races is a good one, ofr two reasons... One, that was perhaps the shortest TT track ever conceived, yet they raced the big Harley 883 TT wins, the Triumph and BSA 750 twins, the Yamaha 750 twins, along with the 500cc four-stroke singles and Mann's Husqvarna and Wise's CR-480 Honda... *AND IT WAS GREAT !!!*

But reason two... That's okay... The original AMA Grand National Trail had short track, TT, half-mile, mile, and road races, and only 250's (and later 350's) were used on short tracks... Why not have some SuperMoto venues that, say, only hosted the 250's and 450's, while other longer tracks could host all the classes, or only the larger classes... and maybe even some really full-sized tracks only hosted the *BIG* open class???

You could still have individual championships in each class, but also a "Grand National" champion who competed in whatever class had "Grand National" status at each event!!!

And I'm not kidding here... The Daytona 200 cold be for the *BIG* open class (750cc's or more) Supermotos! The bikes would not have fairings (by the rules) so top speeds could be kept in check, and since you would be talking about four-stroke production-based twins (you could have a rule that let Harley-Davidson XR-750 twins in the class so Harley could play in the big event...) the bikes would be light and not have the tire-shredding horsepower the AMA 1000cc Superbikes did... Plus the fans could *SEE* the riders better, and see who tucked-in better and drafted closer on the banking...

You could also bring back the days when the riders from the AMA Grand National series had to run different dirt and pavement tracks, and even have tracks with both pavement and dirt mixed it... Imagine, say, six purely road race rounds on the schedule - like Daytona, Barber, Road Atlanta, Laguna Seca, Mid-Ohio, and Loudon - then some stadium events like you mention, and maybe even some short track, half-miles, and miles thrown in... That way Harley could still run and you could get some dirt tracker back to being involved on pavement... MX guys could get in it and crossover ot pavement, too...

And maybe, just maybe... The USA could produce a larger number of Kenny Robert's, Freddie Spencer's, Eddie Lawson's, Wayne Rainey's, etc. to fly the American flag around the world.

Maybe it's just me, but I think it is a 'grand" idea, and one whose time has come.

Just my two US copper pennies...

Cheers!

Dallara

[collyers]

You know, you got some good thinkin' going on there..... Grand National Champion... hadn't heard that in a while. Daytona might still be too long of a track, but put it in the parking lot of some hotel during speedweek.....
hmmmmmmm. I think I'll ride the Duke tomorrow.....

[Kabusa]

Dallara,
If Honda would build a oval piston turbocharged 400cc V-tech V3 with 120 HP and wrap it in a 275lbs Supermoto chassis with a 16 inch front wheel and side mounted radiators, the AMA would bend over backwards for your proposal. As long as said Honda was allowed into the open class, and provided that the class structure and rules were not announced until Honda had completed its development, had hired riders and was assured domination.

Hold on, let me put my Nomex on.........

Actually I would love it if the AMA would do something that the FANS would enjoy. And what you proposed, Dallara, is something this fan would love to see!!!

[Guest]

Dude, you must mean a 16.5" front wheel - all the big SM guys are wearing them this season. No, really, just like MotoGP. 17s in the back, 16.5s in front.
And V-twin or big single 650 power sounds like the best (and easiest for the Japanese to implement); hear me, Suzuki, Honda, Yamaha?

Imagine a Suzuki SV-650-engined SM, a 660 Yamaha & 650 Honda single SMs, and KTM can bring their 660 SMC, Aprilia limps along with their world-beating SVX 550, and Husaberg/Husqvarna/Ducati(!)620 V-twin/Vertemati/VOR/TM, and maybe even stodgy, Teutonic BMW bringing out an F650 (VERY loosely based) SM bike to play. Almost sounds like a plan. Coming to everywhere in the US, and maybe the WORLD! a True WORLD CHAMPOINSHIP!


Sorry, got carried away.

[collyers]

I hate it when I'm out of town & forget to log in.

[Guest]

Dude Do I sound that young?
Well, I guess I will be serious for a bit. I really thought the AMA had a great plan for Supermoto back during the first season (2003 I believe). Then as I recall they kept changing/cancelling the dates and pushing them all together toward the end of the first season. I really thought they killed it. Luckily, the riders and fans stayed interested, and now we will have a fourth season, for which I am greatful for.
But here's my two cents:
1. The 'urban' jump sections have got to go. It's just wrong. If you are going to be trucking in dirt, then use dirt for the jumps, in the dirt section. I don't want 'street supercross' with bikes flying through the air every where I look. It may look cool but it will ruin the racing.
2. Run rain or shine. Lose the dirt if you have too.
3. Don't get rid of the big bikes (like they did to motocross) just because they are hard to ride well. My guess is that if you could give a million dollar championship bonus to the winner of the 'open' class, those bikes would be developed into some pretty fast machines.
4. What ever happens, don't slow them down. What ever the big bike class is, in relation to the next slower class, it should be like Rossi described the experience of getting on a 500 GP bike for the first time.

And collyers, I am pretty sure you got the joke, but in case someone out there didn't: For some reason Honda (long after the 16 inch wheel 'revolution' ended) put 16's, not the current 16.5's, on some of their high end production sport bikes, ie. the RC45 and NR750 as well as the CBR900RR. Racers would immediatly put 17's on them if the class rules allowed. Just like they would put 16.5's or 17's on the pretend Honda V3 supermoto I described in my last post.

[Kabusa]

That was me.