dennis noyes motogp article

[roxrider]

Gauloises just can’t get Yamaha to take their 20 million dollars. Telefónica-Movistar are withdrawing their 15 million dollars from the MotoGP and 250 GP paddock because HRC (Honda Racing Corporation) signed their 250 superstar Dani Pedrosa and assigned him to the Repsol Honda team. And now Camel have found that Honda will not let them spend their 12-15 million with team Pons because HRC rejects their rider...Max Biaggi, the same rider that HRC themselves hired to replace Alex Barros on the Repsol Honda MotoGP team for 2005.

Daniel Torras, General Director of Sponsorship for J.T.I. (Japanese Tobacco International) came up to the spacious Valencia media center late on Sunday evening at the Grand Prix of the Valencian Community (Spain) to explain to incredulous journalists that, as a result of Honda’s rejection of Team Camel Honda Pons nomination of Biaggi to join the team in 2006, the company had decided not to renew with Team Pons.

“We are looking at other options in the paddock,” said Torras, “but if we are unable to find a team interested in working with us and with Max Biaggi, we will look outside Grand Prix motorcycle racing for other sponsorship opportunities.”

Wait, there is more. After having been turned down two weeks ago by Suzuki because the team did not want to run Max Biaggi as John Hopkins´ team mate, Camel made another approach in Valencia suggesting that the uncompetitive British-based Suzuki team, which had just signed Chris Vermeulen a week earlier, consider running Max Biaggi on a third bike. The logic being, and I can’t fault it, that an un-sponsored team running two riders could become a sponsored team with a third rider. Again Paul Denning, ending his first year at the Suzuki GP boss, said thanks, but no thanks. Suzuki, he said, had, in fact, signed a deal with Rizla, the Dutch roll-yer-own cigarette paper company that sponsors the Crescent Suzuki team in British Superbikes.

Why not take in Max, the pariah four-time 250 World Champion and one-time (until this dismal year) archrival of Valentino Rossi in MotoGP?

According the reports from Valencia, Denning felt that Biaggi would be disruptive and that the team had settled on two young riders to develop the Suzuki.

Word is that Rizla will pay less than 2 million dollars to become the first sponsor that Suzuki has had since Sete Gibernau carried Telefonica-Movistar to the Gresini Honda team at the end of the 2001 season. So Rizla´s 2-mill is better than the eight-figure Camel offer?

Camel also approached Kawasaki and was also turned down. Harald Eckl, the Kawasaki team director, said diplomatically that while Biaggi is a talented rider, the current Kawasaki is not competitive and that the team did not have the capacity to run three riders, having already extended Shinya Nakano´s contract and signed French 250 star Randy de Puniet for 2006.

You may be asking yourself how it is that a championship facing escalating costs with the advent of a change to high-revving 800 cc machines in 2007 can afford to drive away $50,000,000 in sponsorship? You may be wondering who is minding the store.

Believe it or not, it all makes perfect sense in the current GP environment. This is what is going on, case by case: Why Yamaha rejects Gauloises, Why Telefónica-Movistar is leaving, and Why Honda rejects Rossi and, finally, why Suzuki and Kawasaki are rejecting Camel.

2005 MotoGP World Champion Valentino Rossi may be looking to "clean" his image in 2006. (Photo: Andrew Northcott)

Why Yamaha rejects Gauloises: The Rossi “satellite team” ploy

Yamaha, after not seriously battling for a title in the premier class (500/MotoGP) since Wayne Rainey’s career-ending accident at Misano, Italy in early September of 1993, have now won two MotoGP titles in a row and added the Manufacturer’s crown this year as well.

The hapless Yamaha M1 of 2003 became the almost unbeatable machine of 2004 thanks to the talents of one Valentino Rossi, backed by Jeremy Burgess, crewchief in Honda for both Mick Doohan and Rossi, and four other technicians who abandoned Honda to join Valentino in Yamaha.

Suddenly a team that had not won a title for ten years was back on top, and most of that was due to Rossi, Burgess and the boys. Therefore when Valentino stated his conditions for signing on for another one-year contract for 2006, Yamaha were in no position to bargain. Rossi had a huge offer from the Marlboro Ducati team, at least as big as the 18 million dollars that Yamaha had offered in salary (Rossi makes another 10 million from secondary sponsors), and when Rossi reportedly demanded that he ride in 2006 without Gauloises sponsorship...while the Marlboro Ducati offer hung over Yamaha’s corporate head like the proverbial sword of Damocles, they just asked where they had to sign.

But at the end of 2004 Yamaha had signed an agreement with Altadis, the French-Spanish company that owns the Gauloises and Fortuna cigarette brands, along with some twenty other labels. According to an Altadis spokesperson present at Valencia, the agreement was for Gauloises to sponsor the Yamaha factory team in MotoGP. They made the deal without having a guarantee that Rossi would continue to ride for Yamaha in 2006, but they did have Yamaha’s assurance that the Japanese factory would be making a strong effort to sign the champion. It was a gamble, but it seemed to have paid off when Yamaha announced that Rossi had signed on for one more year.

But there was a catch 22. Rossi had demanded to ride without tobacco sponsorship. Yamaha had agreed to this if Rossi rode with a “private” Yamaha team. Notionally, then, Yamaha would run a Gauloises-sponsored factory team, led, we assume, by Colin Edwards and another rider to be named later, while Rossi ran his own team with a non-tobacco sponsor.

This was absurd, Altadis bosses claimed. The idea that Rossi’s Yamaha team would be less than “official” was nonsense. Altadis would be the laughing stock of the paddock spending their 20 million to sponsor a Yamaha team sans Valentino.

This seemed an extraordinary comedy of errors and I, like most GP veteran observers, expected some kind of compromise agreement to be hammered out when Altadis bosses met with Yamaha brass back in Europe while Valentino was winning in Qatar after having clinched the title in Australia.

I don’t know if the paddock rumors about Yamaha’s counter offers are true, but as of today, 11/11/05 there is still a standoff between Altadis and Yamaha and the possibility of all this going before judges in European courts is growing.

The latest rumor of a counter offer, un-confirmed, was that Yamaha proposed that Gauloises have full branding of a Yamaha “factory” team with Colin Edwards and Alex Barros for no cost. Edwards would be paid by Yamaha and Barros, it was said by those who claimed to know, would ride for nothing to “work off his debt” of 2.7 million dollars to Altadis for jumping his Gauloises contract to return to Honda at the end of the 2003 season. (Barros has been ordered by European courts to pay 2.7 million dollars plus court costs and interest to Altadis.)

This offer, if it was ever made, has not been accepted by Altadis.

A final counter offer from Yamaha, it is again rumored, is for Rossi to ride in generic red and white Yamaha colors carrying Gauloises branding on the keel of his fairing. This would be without any payment by Altadis, but a way of heading off what could be an expensive lawsuit likely to go against Yamaha. But the problem here is that, again recurring to rumors, the Italian journalists who usually know these things say that Rossi will not accept this...some saying that he CANNOT accept this because of a contract or agreement with the Marlboro Ferrari team that prevents him from carrying tobacco signage in 2006 in order to “clean” his image in case he joins the Marlboro Ferrari Formula 1 team in 2007.

The fact that the factory Yamaha team ran the generic white and red at Valencia was not significant, however, because the 2005 Yamaha-Altadis agreement was for the team to run generic colors at two GPs. They ran the traditional yellow and black “Roberts” colors at Laguna Seca and, after threatening to run the red and white paint jobs at Motegi where Rossi was expected to clinch the title (but didn’t when he tee-boned Melandri), they decided to go generic at Valencia.

It did seem significant, however, that Yamaha did not bring out a blue bike (even with Go!!!!! replacing Gauloises) for the photos of the three championship winning bikes. In the TV and still images that will live on as the culmination of the 2005 season, 125 champion Thomas Luthi and 250 Champion Dani Pedrosa sit astride their bikes in their normal Bet and Win (Luthi-Honda) and Telefónica-Movistar (Pedrosa-Honda) colors with the generic Yamaha sitting in the middle straddled by Rossi whose leathers have no trace of the Gauloises brand. Ironically Rossi scored all 11 race wins this year with the bike in blue and was third both (at Laguna Seca and Valencia) when the bike was in Yamaha colors.

There are those in the paddock who believe that there will still be some kind of accommodation, but Italian journalist who claim to be in the know say that there is no wiggle-room in this. Rossi won’t accept the Gauloises sponsorship and this will go to the courts…to the European courts where Altadis recently won that (relatively) big settlement against Alex Barros.

TeleFonica MoviStar Honda's Sete Gibernau at Assen. (Photo: Andrew Northcott)

Why Telefónica is leaving: Honda plays hardball with sponsors

Telefónica-Movistar seems like the sponsor from heaven. This is a Spanish telephone and mobile phone company that spends millions beyond their payment to the Gresini Honda team to promote their riders and the team in Spain. They buy trackside advertising from Dorna and have even been naming rights sponsors for Dorna GPs. In addition they have also on various occasions sponsored a Honda-Cup series in Spain to find new talent.

That is, in fact, the bone of contention. It was the Honda Movistar Junior Cup that discovered Dani Pedrosa. He didn’t win the 125 promotional series. In fact he was only eighth, but former GP star and 500 winner Alberto Puig who ran the show for Dorna, selected the diminutive Catalan rider along with the first two finishers to ride in a Movistar Junior GP team. Pedrosa bloomed into a 125 World Champion and Telefónica-Movistar put up big bucks to run a factory 250 team for Pedrosa which resulted in the 5 foot 2, 105 pound superstar winning consecutive 250 World titles.

Telefónica-Movistar were already sponsoring the Gresini Honda MotoGP team, backing another Catalan, Sete Gibernau, and the Telefónica-Movistar Dream Team of Gibernau and Pedrosa in MotoGP seemed a no-brainer. (It is because of the Telefónica pull-out that Gibernau has replaced Checa in the Marlboro Ducati team…with Checa going back home to Pons, the team he left in 1998 to go to Yamaha.)

But HRC executives were frustrated by the tendency of sponsors to sign top riders to exclusive contracts making it impossible for Honda to place their best riders on the best teams. The case in point is the fact that, although HRC tried hard to get an agreement, Repsol, sponsors of the factory team, and Telefónica-Movistar, sponsors of the second level Gresini team, could not or would not agree on a partnership agreement that would allow Sete Gibernau to carry some Telefónica signage but still become a member of the Repsol team as Nicky Hayden’s team mate this year.

Entanglements with sponsors created a big problem for Honda this year forcing them to sign their second choice, Max Biaggi, instead of the logical choice and two-time runner-up Gibernau.

Obviously Repsol were not happy with a Biaggi-Hayden team that left them without a Spanish rider again. The Spanish petroleum giant has not had a Spanish rider since Alex Criville retired before the start of the 2001 season.

Honda, seeing that Pedrosa, like Gibernau, was a Telefónica-Movistar rider, moved quickly at midseason to sign Pedrosa directly for 2006 and 2007. With Pedrosa under contract to Honda, they could place him on the factory team alongside Hayden and there was nothing that Telefónica could do about it…other than withdraw in anger from the championship leaving Honda’s second team without a sponsor.

This is what Telefónica announced when Pedrosa clinched the title in Australia, but it was no surprise and Honda was prepared. The Gauloises-Rossi standoff played perfectly into Honda’s hands. With Gauloises in conflict with Yamaha, Fortuna, also an Altadis brand, could not continue with a Yamaha team. Thus Gresini approached Fortuna and quickly and seamlessly replaced Telefónica with Fortuna and also picked up Yamaha’s Rookie of the Year, Toni Elias, who was just the Spanish rider that Fortuna wanted to join Marco Melandri on the Italian-based Honda secondary team.

For Honda the operation worked well, but it leaves Herve Poncheral and his brothers without a sponsor for the Yamaha Tech3 team which now looks like folding unless Yamaha decides to pay the bills.

Sito Pons approached Telefónica-Movistar just after the GP in Valencia, hoping to get them to change their minds and sponsor his team of Casey Stoner and Carlos Checa, but they made it clear that they are no longer interested and will be spending their money in F1 with Renault and Spanish F1 World Champion Fernando Alonso.

But why is Sito Pons suddenly without Camel sponsorship? That’s next on our countdown to meltdown.

Max Biaggi: troublemaker or troubled contender? (Photo: Andrew Northcott)

Why Pons lost Camel: How Max Biaggi´s Fit Cost Pons Millions

Reliable sources tell it like it was. Max Biaggi has been having a hard season. He’s been unhappy with the bike, unhappy with Honda and unable to win races or even appear consistently on the podium.

I had a brief interview with Max in Australia where he said at one point, “My problems are not because I have forgotten how to ride. The problem is the bike and the problem is Honda.” But then he realized that the interview was being recorded by an HRC PR “minder” and backed away from the statement, cut short the interview and fled the scene.

Off the record he said enough to get him fired, I suppose, but what’s off the record is off the record, at least with me.

In Turkey he is said to have told his team what he thought of the bike in no uncertain terms and implied that he didn’t want to ride it again. That was enough for a Honda executive who called Japan. A couple of suits of Repsol Honda leathers appeared briefly in Valencia with the name Ukawa on them according to unimpeachable sources. Italian journalists had, by then, printed remarks very similar to those that I had been hearing “off the record.”

Honda officials denied that there was a problem with Max, but, in fact, Ukawa would have replaced Biaggi at Valencia had not IRTA (the International Racing Teams Association) objected that an uninjured rider could not be replaced on a whim.

Biaggi rode and although Honda executives denied that they had banned Biaggi from riding Honda machines in the future, it turns out that they ordered Sito Pons, who had been working for some time on bringing Max back into his Camel team in 2006, to refuse the ride to the four time 250 World Champion.

Pons couldn’t do that without losing Camel sponsorship so he appealed to HRC to accept Max and was refused. Thus Camel, determined to stay loyal to Max (who retained personal sponsorship for Camel even in the Repsol Honda team this year), announced in Valencia, long after sundown on race-day that without Max in the package they were leaving the Pons team.

All day long we had been hearing about this and fully expected either Honda to back down and accept Camel’s millions along with a repentant Biaggi as rider, or for Camel to back down and stay with a Pons team consisting of either Checa or Barros along with the 20-year-old Casey Stoner who had been linked to Tech3 Yamaha until it became clear that the Tech3 team had no sponsorship. (Yamaha now seems to have no young riders in training for the post-Rossi period and won’t be able to sign any unless they can run a second team).

In the worst-case scenario, we reasoned, Camel would sponsor the Suzuki team and Max would be a third rider. There was also the possibility that some kind of green and yellow canary color scheme could be worked out with Kawasaki and that Max could join Shinya Nakano and Randy de Puniet on the improving kwackers.

But what no one really expected was that a J.T.I. top executive would trudge up the stairs to the media center to tell us that, since no one wanted his money or his rider, Camel was probably pulling out…maybe even going to Superbikes, he added. (In fact sister brand Winston is there with the Ten Kate Honda team.)


What does it all mean, Mr. Natural? It means Japan Inc. is playing smoke-free hardball.

Now this is me talking…not the paddock rumor mill or the Italian press.

I believe a couple of very Japanese things and one very Spanish thing are happening. The Spanish thing is easy to understand. Antonio Lombardía, the Telefónica-Movistar marketing boss who was the force behind bringing Telefónica into GP racing, is angry because HRC stole his rider and handed him over to Repsol. A less passionate executive might find a compromise, swallow some pride, and figure out a way to stay around. In fact, Lombardía was so angry about the whole thing that he turned down Rossi. Approached by Yamaha as possible sponsor for the Yamaha-Rossi team in 2006, Lombardía just said no: “We had a commitment to Dani Pedrosa. Without Dani Pedrosa and without motorcycle racing we are still one of the largest and most successful communications companies in Europe, but without us Dani Pedrosa would not be who he is today. We did not come into this to jump on the Rossi bandwagon but to develop a rider who was to be seen as a Telefónica rider. Honda stole him from us and for that reason we are leaving. There would be no satisfaction in sponsoring a team to beat Honda. We are not looking for revenge. Besides Rossi was only offering a one year deal and with lots of testing included in a Marlboro-Ferrari.”

The sound you just heard was Lombardía firmly closing a 15 million dollar door…. and that second sound is a big ka-ching from the F1 cash register as Mr. E and the F1 boys welcome even greater involvement from this adventurous and free-spending Spanish company.

But the Japanese thing that is happening is far more complicated. First of all, it is easy to understand why the Japanese manufacturers want to be able to sign riders without having to worry about the sponsorship entanglements that the riders have. In both the Rossi and Pedrosa cases, the factory has signed the rider and left a major sponsor out in the cold.

The Japanese say that their costs in developing and maintaining these MotoGP prototypes and in running the testing and racing effort, plus signing riders, is so great that the $15,000,000 to $20,000,000 sponsorship deals are “like tips.”

So, in part, what we are seeing is a battle for control of racing between factories and sponsors. The manufactures want sponsors, but not “uppity” ones.

You also see Japan INC. pulling together over the Biaggi issue. Whatever Max really said or did was considered a grave insult to Honda and Honda seems to have put a curse on Max that is keeping other manufacturers away…even when Camel is offering millions (10 to 15K) to open the door.

And finally this rejection of Gauloises by Yamaha and of Camel by Honda, Suzuki and Kawasaki just may have something to do with the fact that the days of tobacco advertising in Europe and most of the world are quickly drawing to a close.

Maybe in some smoke-filled office of a Tokyo skyscraper the representatives of the Big Four decided that MSMA factory teams should wean themselves from the dirty, old habit.

If the above theories don’t contain the answer as to why the MotoGP paddock has just driven away about $50,000,000 in sponsorship, then I’m ready to listen to your theory.

The best way to understand this is simply to step back and ask yourself a couple of questions: Who runs this show? What is the product that MotoGP sells?

The best answers I can come up with are: Japan and motorcycles.

And where is Dorna is all this? Setting up the on-board cameras on the Titanic?

Unlike F1 where Bernie Ecclestone seems to control most things and never seems to be overwhelmed or surprised, MotoGP is a free market where Dorna seem to be unable to head off potential disasters. What you are seeing is a free market at work…like the Wall Street Panic.

But that’s probably not fair to Dorna. In fact, Dorna have a solid product. Full racetracks. A good market for TV rights. There is nothing wrong with the show as long as the factories are willing to pay for it.

If Honda, Yamaha, Suzuki, Kawasaki and Ducati can each put two teams on the grid in 2007 as Dorna is proposing, there will be 20 very respectable machines. Add to that a Roberts-Honda machine and a couple of Pons machines (since Sito always lands on his feet) and you have the guarantee of a good show.

And, even without the tobacco companies, there should be sponsors for these bikes if the TV package stays strong. Yeah, if you look at it that way, maybe there is a plan that makes it logical to chase away sponsors and turn your nose up at $50,000,000 bucks.

I wonder if the accountants at the factories would agree. I know the owners of the five un-sponsored private teams (Pons, Tech3, d´Antin, WCM and Team Roberts) would not agree. From what we are hearing it will fall to Dorna to subsidize some of these private teams and the most likely teams to get a boost from Madrid are Pons, d´Antin (where Dorna want to place a British rider, Ellison) and Roberts.

Yesterday Rossi, the guy who won’t accept tobacco sponsorship, was testing a Marlboro Ferrari at Mugello. So, if there is a plan behind all this, what is the plan for keeping the grandstands full and the TV stations happy after Rossi goes?

I just ran out of answers.

[darthrider]

Rox, thanks for posting this. This rant is not for you but for the 20 tons of bullchit contained in that article.

One stipulation: I admire & respect *all* motorcycle racers. I just kind of feel sorry for these guys.


That said, I am very, VERY happy that:

I do not have cable and can not conveniently watch any of these drama queens and their high theater.

I do not smoke cigarettes...well, OK I bum one once in a while on Friday nights at Peckerhead "meetings".

I have no use for Japanese motorcycles at all, other than to make me appreciate my Brit & Euro bikes all the more. If I need an appliance, I have always had good luck with Sears' brands. In my formative years I had a number of Japsters, now I know better.

I do not use Repsol lubricants.

Everyone knows "Zig Zag's" are better than "Rizla, the Dutch roll-yer-own cigarette paper company."

I do not know anything of Spanish cable companies...maybe they should consider Larry the Cable Guy to head their new team, at least he is funny.

So far as I know I do not support any sponsors associated with M-GP. Sould anyone know differently, let me know and I will do better.

I just bought a MotoGP jacket at work but maybe I can scrape the label off.

It seems a crying shame to me that the most skilled motorcycle racers in the world are wrapped up in a train-wreck that has become primarily about money, and only a distant second about motorcycles and racing them. Yeah, I know a bazzillion people watch and send them money, directly or indirectly.
I have to think that deep in the heart of hearts of these brave & talented young riders is a longing to just load a bike they built themselves into the back of their old van and go out to the nearest club race and have fun...racing motorcycles. And maybe take home a $10.00 trophy rather than a $50,000,000 contract and all the baggage that goes with it.

My jaded view is that (too much) money has ruined or is ruining most sports in the world, especially motorsports. And while it may make for fascinating theater for many, for many others it is just...sad. And it is really hard to call it "sport" anymore.

I've posted this before but I think this was said best by one of our motorcycle racing heroes before being taken by that bitch, the "Big C", far too soon. Don Vesco said of Land Speed Racing at the Bonneville Salt Flats, the fastest race track on the planet: "It is the last true amateur racing left in the world."

It will be a sad day when Giant Money and the people who slave to it discover Wendover, Utah.

I'm sure I will be "straightened out" on these views in the posts to come. But that's what I think and how I feel, for what it's worth.

[dallara]

Darth,

Though I certainly agree with much of what you said I do want to mention that MotoGP is literally an "amateur" sport compared to F-1. And hell, the Machevellian machinations I witnessed, and lived through, in Indy car racing were enough to sour me on that form of motorsport forever.

In many ways I am glad that the Jap factories are forcing out the tobacco bucks (and I *AM* a smoker...) because big-buck sponsorship has done more to *homogenize* racing than any other single thing involved. I am not against tobacco companies in any way. To me they have as much right to advertise their product as anyone else... I seriously doubt anyone ever started smoking simply because they saw a cigarette company's logo on a race vehicle, any more than someone would start drinking because they saw a beer company on the side of superbike.

That said, when enough outside dollars roll into the paddock things get skewed... I do not mind the motorcycle manufacturers trying to run the show, primarily since they are the ones with the biggest vested interest in seeing a series be successful. If the AMA would ever figure that one out we might see dirt tracking grow out of the 1950's mentality it is in, and see US road racing get back on the "public eye" map. 600's running the Daytona 200??? Come on... If Yamaha TZ-750's and Honda FWS's could go 200 miles (with the Honda's having tire changes...) then by God a current Superbike should at least be able to do it.

This constant slaving to "We have to slow the race vehicles down..." is dumbing down racing across the board to the point of being beyond ridiculous... Hell, when I was growing up I was taught the goal in racing was to always go *FASTER*!

Racing is *DANGEROUS* people! Always has been. Always will be. Let's face it, if it was easy to do, and carried no high-price of risk, then none of us would watch it. If they ever make racing as safe as badminton I promise there will be no crowds. Race fans want larger than life *HEROES*, not something where just about anybody can climb in or on the thing and tool around wide open.

And this is where sponsorship and racing run into a *HUGE* clash... I never will forget when we were pitching a major US airline for race car sponsorship. They told us that they really couldn't be associated with anything that might "crash", or could perhaps cause an injury or fatality - it would be bad for their image. Well, don't look now, because even though race cars crash, it is getting more and more rare that anyone is hurt as badly as before, and even rarer that someone is killed.

They have IRL cars so friggin' dumbed down now that just about anyone can run any of the courses flat out all the way around, and we are left with processions of drafting duels... About as exciting as watching paint dry... And both it and Champ Car are literally "spec car" series...

Even Formula 1 is heading this direction... That everyone must run a 3-liter normally aspirated V-10 has been in place for a long time now, and we are on the brink of everyone in F-1 having to run 2.4-liter normally aspirated V-8's...

In each of these series the organizers claim these rules are to control the costs... Seems pretty odd to me that with more money in auto racing now than ever before, and with some budgets approaching those of the NASA Apollo Moon program, that there isn't enough money for some engineering, and engine, diversity.

This is the one thing that draws me to MotoGP - engine diversity. We have V-5's with conventional valve springs, Inline fours with conventional valve springs, V-4's with desmodromic valve control, used to have an inline three with pneumatic valves, still have what amounts to a privateer team (WCM) who despite how the results sheets show them are doing one hell of a job literally building their GP contenders in a barn.

MotoGP is one of the last closed-course motor racing series that draws out the best that engineering has to offer, and for that I am grateful. As such it also draws out some of the very finest riding talent the world has ever seen. To me you can't call riders like Nicky Hayden, Colin Edwards, John Hopkins, Marco Melandri, Loris Capirossi, etc. "drama queens"... They just don't fit that mold (though I think Max Biaggi and Sete Gibernau fit it quite well... ). Rossi is a showman... You have to hand him that. He, singlehandedly, has done more to elevate the sport of GP motorcycle racing of late than anyone else. I have to thank him for that. We wouldn't have a US round of the world's premier motorcycle racing series if it weren't for him. That I can guarantee.

One also has to look no further back than Dajiro Kato to know that motorcycle racing at that level is still very dangerous stuff... No carbon-fiber, crush-structure, progressively-deformable, survival-capsule monocoques for these guys... Just a thin layer of leather and some padding, along with a helmet, to stave off the grim reaper that possibly awaits you at 200 MPH... Grinning.

But enough rambling...

You said:

So far as I know I do not support any sponsors associated with M-GP. Sould anyone know differently, let me know and I will do better.

Well, I dunno'...

If you have ever had a Bridgestone or Michelin tire... Or an Arai, Shoei, AGV, etc. helmet... Or Dainese, Alpinstars, etc. leathers, gloves, or boots... Or ever used Shell gasoline... Or had some Ohlins or Showa suspension components... Etc., etc., etc.... or if one of those smokes you bummed was a Marlboro... Then you have been supporting some smaller sponsors of MotoGP...



Cheers!

Dallara

[darthrider]

Allan, I can't quarrel with anything you said...you were speaking more in specifics as you have lived and breathed them for years. I was speaking more in generalities based on my own jaded & distorted perceptions. And in reaction to the "presumed true BS" in the posted article.

you can't call riders like Nicky Hayden, Colin Edwards, John Hopkins, Marco Melandri, Loris Capirossi, etc. "drama queens"...

Totally agree...that reference is really aimed at the screwball circus & it's sponsors and movers & shakers, that the best riders in the world have to jump through hoops in, just to be "the best riders in the world."

Now if you will excuse me, I have to go out to the shop and trash my Arais & Shoeis, drain my Shell gas, spoon some Cheng Shinns on Hoochie Mama in place of the Michelins and dump the Marlboro butts from the Official Peckerhead Butt Can.

NOT!!

[arkline]

Taking a long view of this, there has always been a strong disconnect between the racers, the sponsors and the organizers when there is tons'o'money to be made. King Kenny wrote a series of articles in Motorcyclist about the transformation that he and other riders made in the GP series back when he was hot in the saddle. Safety and salaries were his main issues.

As long as it costs as much as it does to field a team and the evil necessity of sponsorship remains, it is always going to be a tug of war. On the other hand, the opportunity to see these guys ride is one of the few things that can get my attention these days. I'm not much one for the politics behind the scenes, but I sure do like to hear those bikes Doppler past.

As Cyndi said, "We think we know what we're doin', but that don't mean a thing. Money, money changes everything."

[Simon D]

Dave said "It seems a crying shame to me that the most skilled motorcycle racers in the world are wrapped up in a train-wreck that has become primarily about money, and only a distant second about motorcycles and racing them. Yeah, I know a bazzillion people watch and send them money, directly or indirectly.
I have to think that deep in the heart of hearts of these brave & talented young riders is a longing to just load a bike they built themselves into the back of their old van and go out to the nearest club race and have fun...racing motorcycles. And maybe take home a $10.00 trophy rather than a $50,000,000 contract and all the baggage that goes with it."

Well said Dave, oh and by the way what's a "peckerhead meeting"??????
Si

[Bones]

It appears that some journalists are payed by the word.

Bones

[darthrider]

Well said Dave, oh and by the way what's a "peckerhead meeting"??????

OK Simon, you asked for it!
Rather than abuse this thread with a response I'll place it on "Off Topic".
It will take a bit.

[new2BMW]

I almost totally agree with Dave's rant. I have to disagree with the Japanese bike part. Partially because I love my MT-01, but also becasue they have played a huge part in my life and generally in motorcycle history. Kawasaki and Suzuki inline fours were excellent formats for drag racing engines; and motocross racing couldn't be what it is today without Honda and Yamaha.

Other than that I agree totally.

This constant slaving to "We have to slow the race vehicles down..." is dumbing down racing across the board to the point of being beyond ridiculous... Hell, when I was growing up I was taught the goal in racing was to always go *FASTER*!

This has pissed me off for years. I remember many years ago reading about the Ford overhead cam engines that ran in Nascar in (I think) 1964. Ford was running circles around the competition until the engine type was banned after only one season. Imagine what American cars could be today if our late 60s and early 70s muscle cars had overhead cams and multi valve heads. Commercial technology relies on unbridled engineering in competition.

These controls on hp and speed in racing should be strictly limited to the ability of other technologies to keep up (tires for example).

When bean counters limit performance for any other reason, they are stiffling (sp?) fresh ideas.

[darthrider]

Jeff -

almost totally agree with Dave's rant. I have to disagree with the Japanese bike part. Partially because I love my MT-01,

*That* my friend would be the exception that proves my rule! Or it's (hopeful) descendent, the MT-0S or is it "05"?

I've had some Japsters that stirred me up pretty well through the years, among others that didn't. The impressive ones (for good or evil!) were:
'67 Kawasaki 350cc A7 Avenger (Whoa! Acceleration!)
'69 Kawasaki H1 500cc triple (tried to kill me every time I rode it)
'72 Yamaha RT-1 360cc Enduro (broken bones always impress me)
'81 Kawasaki GPz 550 (great little bike)

Now, about that MT-01...

[dallara]

Well, Darth...

I'm afraid I have to side with New2BMW here... And you know I love European mounts, but...

I've had some incredible Japanese bikes along the way, like:

Honda 250 MX'ers, from the very first Elsinores all the way up through the last ones I ever owned. Had more race wins on those than any other single motorcycle type, and that includes winning some road races at Henderson on one, and a second at Aqua Fest!

Honda CB-750-F and CB-900-F DOHC models - The CB-900-F was perhaps the most versatile motorcycle I ever owned. It was ridden all across the country as a touring mount, served as a day to day commuter, and was drag raced and road raced... Road raced a *LOT*. It never whimpered and never let me down, and was the finest handling UJM inline four I ever rode. I won a bunch of road races on a 1979 CB-750-F, and it ran what seemed like a zillion race miles of race abuse and just kept getting faster.

Honda CBX's - Well, what can I say... They were CBX's, and that says it all.

Honda VF-750 Interceptors - The early ones were a light-years leap forward in motorcycling, and the 1986 VF-750-F gear-drive cam, aluminum framed model was even better, with what to me was, and still is, the most incredible motorcycling powerplant ever made for power delivery.

Honda XR's - Still the measure by which any other trail bike has to be judged. Absolutely, undeniably, irrefutably *UNBREAKABLE*... And God knows, I tried... Yet easy to ride, fun to own, and more versatile than any dirt bikes ever made by man. Yet, they could also win all sorts of races. I won many a hare scrambles event on 'em.

Yamaha Monoshock YZ's - changed the face of motorcycling forever. The 1975 360 I owned was fast as light, and the 1978 250 I owned was so damn good I never found any way to improve it from stock.

Suzuki RM's - The first ones hatched from Roger DeCoster. Also changed MX forever. Never owned one, but I got beat by plenty of 'em.

Kawasaki's two-stroke triples - What can you say? Like the Honda CBX, they were Kawasaki Triples, and that says it all.

Kawasaki's Z-1 - Owned two of them, and what amazing motorcylces they were.

The original Honda Fours - I owned examples of all of the early ones... a CB-350-F, a CB-400-F, a CB-550-F (which was road raced, drag raced, and carried me on my first truly long distance tours), a CB-750-K single cammer, and a 1975 CB-750-F single cammer... All great bikes, and who could question that the Honda 750 Four when it came out wasn't a landmark in motorcycling history?

Honda Gold Wing's _ See Honda CNX and Kawasaki Triples.

Yamaha RD's - More bang for the buck than maybe any motorcycle ever built. Fast, reliable, and handling like a Obi Wan's light saber. And you have to include Yamaha's TZ's along with it.

I could go on, but there are so many fantastic, wonderful, and amazing Jap motorcycles that the list would take days. Motorcycling would not exist as it does today if it were not for the Japanese motorcycle industry. Tehy *FORCED* the rest of the world, even the British, to start making truly reliable, high quality products. We wouldn't have the incredible performance coupled with anvil-like reliability - and all at truly affordable prices - from today's motorcycles from the world over if it were not for the Japanese.

I love European bikes more than any others these days, but I would always love and respect Japanese bikes, too. Why? Because we owe 'em for all the great bikes we have today.

Cheers!

Dallara

[new2BMW]

Suzuki RN's - The first ones hatched from Roger DeCoster. Also changed MX forever. Never owned one, but I got beat by plenty of 'em.

No kidding! I never owned one either, but i sure loved to hate them!

I had an RD400 and a KZ900 too. Loved them both.

Now, if you want to talk about today's Japanese bikes, I'm sure they are all good bikes, but not many japanese street bikes really light my fire other than my MT and maybe that new Kawsaki 650 twin.

On the other hand, i would love to own any of the 450cc motocross machines.

BTW Dave, I'm off to the US again on Saturday. I took the bike in for it's first check and a Staintune set of cans.

[roxrider]

It seems like motoGP has several problems.

If you are a rider, how do you sign with Camel cigs for 10 million a year?
Last I heard Camel makes smokes not motorcycles.
If Camel can't get a bike and you don't ride in any races , Do you get paid?

Nationalism. It sux when a big company spends millions sponsoring a team
SO long as its rider is from thier little plot of land. Then you end up with a
better rider with no ride.

It will all play out over the next several years.
Hope the sport dosen't suffer tooo much.

[darthrider]

To put a somewhat finer point on my "un-like" of Japanese motorcycles (dis-like is too strong of a word).

I don't disagree with anything Allan said, or Jeff.
I have been convinced for years that Japan, Inc. makes the best 2-wheeled, motorized machines on the planet.
And the worst motorcycles...and for the same reasons!
To me at least.
Not the early ones when they were re-inventing the motorcycle and putting smiles on my face or breaking my bones, but the later models after they had it dialed in. And the currents of course.
BO-ring...
Too perfect.
Little personality.
Almost..."appliance like".

I had an acquaintance in our Ducati club in the 90's. A very successful heart surgeon who won the "most toys" contest with his two huge Dallas homes, 2 Ferraris, 2 Ducatis and *many* other things. He could get whatever he wanted and did. He bought an Acura NSX and proclaimed it the finest car he had ever owned for the same reasons most of the world did.
He sold it in 6 months because it was "too good", perfect, Bo-ring. That's when he got his 2nd Ferrari, a Testa Rosa which he freely admitted was nowhere near as good a car as the NSX...but was a hell of a lot more fun.
And had "that certain something" nothing from Japan ever has had, or likely will have. Again, my opinion, and his.

So, no Japsters for me, despite all the races they won/win, landmarks they set, etc. Nothing against any of them, just don't like them.

Except maybe for that Yammy MT-01...reasonable exceptions can be made! Jeff, how do the Staintunes look/work/sound?

My Dad used to fly to Japan a lot. Of course this was during those "unpleasantries" a while back and was never invited to land...