Cars with auto pilot and motorcyclists

[EasyBee]

Following letters sent by the Norwegian motorcyclist organization NMCU to the Norwegian Transport Minister Ketil Solvik-Olsen and Tesla boss Elon Musk, the Dutch MAG (Motorcyclist Action Group), their European equivalent FEMA and Dutch KNMV (Royal Dutch Motorcylist Union) have sent a letter to the Dutch Department of Road Transport (RDW).

They are concerned (already for some time now) about how car manufacturers put their driving support systems into the market. Accidents, investigations and evasive answers to questions from FEMA indicate that these systems are not tested enough and certainly not with motorcycles.

In April 2016 the European Transport Security Council (ETSC) has published a report highlighting the risks of insufficiently tested self-propelled systems and afterwards over-the-air updated software (like Tesla). The report also stated that "There is an urgent need to impose certain conditions prior to wider deployment of automated vehicles in Europe."

A recent accident in Norway, where a young motorcyclist, a Tesla with enabled 'autopilot' and two other vehicles were involved, has once again shown that motorcyclists are right to be concerned. This was confirmed in tests by the German organization BASt, which led to the conclusion that the Tesla system is potentially dangerous to other traffic and also confirmed in a letter by the German German Kraftfahrt-Bundesamt (KBA) to Tesla to stop the use of the term "autopilot", because it is misleading to the (future) owners of a Tesla.

The California Department of Motor Vehicles (DMV) has issued formal regulations by which Tesla is summed ,under the pressure of a penalty, to stop using the terms "self-driving", "automated" or "autopilot" in advertisements for their cars , unless the car is able to operate autonomously without any human back-up.

As the European type approval for the Tesla was issued by the Dutch RDW, the MAG, KNMV and FEMA have decided to join forces to ensure that motorcyclists, but basically all two-wheelers (cycles and scooters e.g), can use the roads without being hit from behind due to a failing Tesla or other vehicle that is equipped with a poorly functioning emergency brake system.

The first step to accomplish this is to ask questions about the tests with two-wheeled vehicles to the Dutch RDW and demand that no more vehicles are allowed on European roads that have not been properly tested or have not been tested with two-wheelers. A copy of the letter to the RDW is also sent to the Dutch Minister of Infrastructure and the Environment and Dutch Parliament.

[riceburner]

As motorcyclists we are responsible for our own safety - don't rely on others to look after YOUR life.

[Buckster]

These vehicles are just allowing people to text while driving more as now they have a "safety net" to do so. That's what I see.

[Sunbeemer]

I agree with both of the above comments, but I commend these organisations for raising this issue since it's apparent that many drivers are not overly concerned with motorcyclists' safety (or even their own!).

Link to article on Tesla Autopilot failure: http://www.theverge.com/2016/6/30/12072 ... us-model-s

So if an autopilot can't even tell the difference between a white semi trailer and the sky, then I'd surmise that a motorcycle on an urban street amidst lots of background clutter could also be problematic...especially for the rider.

[peels]

These vehicles are just allowing people to text while driving more as now they have a "safety net" to do so. That's what I see.

yep.

we need MORE driver awareness. not less.

Ill be honest, I am a HUGE Elon Musk or more specifically a Tesla fanboy...and we'll probably own an electric car in not too long... autopilot is a visionary idea. but its wholly WRONG, to ELIMINATE driver workload, not just minimize it. Calling it autopilot IS the issue. Kudos for calling that out.

iMO there are just too many variables on the ground to have AUTOpilot. when compared to the airways. where you go for hours and not see traffic.

scares me to think about people in their car not even looking. Its bad enough with the phones. I almost ate it yesterday pulling into a parking lot. and it wasn't the facebooking cheerleader mom this time... it was a grown, bearded man in a city utility truck.

touchy subject for me.

[AZBMWRIDER]

Google has been testing their self driving cars ( actually Lexus SUV's ) in my area for 6 months now, I don't get a warm feeling while around them .

[MThomas]

So the sensor is faulty around these cars, what about the sound sensor, i.e. horn blowing? Would my recently upgraded air horn back the auto-car away from me or do they not have any sound sensors built in?
Pretty sure Kirby'll flame me for asking this but what is the 800lb gorilla of motorcycle groups in the US?
With the incentives to get on bicycles, e.g. building out bike lanes, I wouldn't mind seeing motorcyle lanes/paths/routes.
If you eliminate the co-mingling with cars, you take the danger out of the equation for most, hence more ppl will be using motorcycles more

[kirby]

So the sensor is faulty around these cars, what about the sound sensor, i.e. horn blowing? Would my recently upgraded air horn back the auto-car away from me or do they not have any sound sensors built in?
Pretty sure Kirby'll flame me for asking this but what is the 800lb gorilla of motorcycle groups in the US?
With the incentives to get on bicycles, e.g. building out bike lanes, I wouldn't mind seeing motorcyle lanes/paths/routes.
If you eliminate the co-mingling with cars, you take the danger out of the equation for most, hence more ppl will be using motorcycles more

Does not having a clue mean anything to you?

[MThomas]

Does not having a clue mean anything to you?

As expected, the usual informative, constructive, and insightful post

[EasyBee]

So the sensor is faulty around these cars, what about the sound sensor, i.e. horn blowing? Would my recently upgraded air horn back the auto-car away from me or do they not have any sound sensors built in?
Pretty sure Kirby'll flame me for asking this but what is the 800lb gorilla of motorcycle groups in the US?
With the incentives to get on bicycles, e.g. building out bike lanes, I wouldn't mind seeing motorcyle lanes/paths/routes.
If you eliminate the co-mingling with cars, you take the danger out of the equation for most, hence more ppl will be using motorcycles more

Does not having a clue mean anything to you?

Would my recently upgraded air horn back the auto-car away from me or do they not have any sound sensors built in?

I wouldn't mind seeing motorcyle lanes/paths/routes. If you eliminate the co-mingling with cars, you take the danger out of the equation for most, hence more ppl will be using motorcycles more

You want to ride your bike and constantly horn at every auto pilot car?

Keep on dreaming. Seperate lanes for motorbikes? Yeah, right!

[MThomas]

You want to ride your bike and constantly horn at every auto pilot car?

Keep on dreaming. Seperate lanes for motorbikes? Yeah, right!

Yes!
If an auto-car is careening towards me, it would be an extra safety measure to be able to blow the horn and have it avoid me. That's unreasonable?

As far as separate lanes, I'm trying to think big picture here. It's a matter of providing incentives to get on bikes and deterrents to hit bikes. If no one likes motorcycle lanes how about hefty fines for hitting motorcycles. In other words, a driver needs to be aware of what's around them. If no one likes these ideas feel free to come up with your own, something I haven't seen from Monday morning QBs kirby and EasyBee.

Of course this is working under the assumption that we all want increased safety, more bikes on the road, and less of a carbon footprint.
If the majority of riders get a rush out of riding amongst cars then my assumption is erroneous.

[kirby]

Good luck with your life mr. MThomas

Removing the cat sure goes along way toward reducing the carbon footprint doesn't it.

I never engage in a battle of wits unless I determine that my opponent is armed.

Adue

[MThomas]

since you don't post content and only generalities I assume you're just here to be an ah

[peels]

if a car was equipped with a sound sensor that would alter its course. it would never go straight.

It is an AWESOME concept... but there are NO scenarios that I believe autopilot around other NON-autopilot cars(or bikes especially) is safe. if they ALL were controlled, and networked somehow... MAYBE. but if you dont want to drive, why do you have the car?

think I might have read the book "I, robot" at too young an age. I am not interested in full autonomy.

[EasyBee]

Good luck with your life mr. MThomas
Removing the cat sure goes along way toward reducing the carbon footprint doesn't it.
I never engage in a battle of wits unless I determine that my opponent is armed.
Adue

[Sunbeemer]

I think it's more likely that rather than promoting motorcycles, they'll be banned as being too dangerous.
Drivers can't see them over the top of their phones and the riders don't even wear seat belts!

[sjbmw]

I think it's more likely that rather than promoting motorcycles, they'll be banned as being too dangerous.
Drivers can't see them over the top of their phones and the riders don't even wear seat belts!

Readers of American Motorcyclist magazine know this is a real possibility.