More senseless violence against dead horses-yup, windscreens

[SF_Hooligan]

I've been riding my '11 R1200R with the BMW sport screen on it and on longer rides, I started thinking I might like it to be a bit quieter. For reference, I'm about 5'10", stock bars and comfort seat (not sure of height). I'm a forward-leaning kind of rider, especially when the pace picks up. I wear a Shoei Qwest, with earplugs.

I don't really want to bolt a giant screen on the front of the bike, so I thought I'd try the Cee Bailey sport screen. This isn't intended to be a rant about that screen or even a review, but it's not working for me. I bolted it on and immediately rode 300 miles and damnit, I won't ride above 50 MPH again for more than five minutes until I take it off. It's significantly louder than the BMW sport screen, even at lower speeds. It's loud enough that even with ear plugs, my ears start ringing noticeably after 15-20 minutes in the saddle at high speed. Even worse, above 70 MPH I get really bad buffeting - my head is basically vibrating. Not cool.

I've emailed the fine folks at CB to see if they have any tips. I may screw around with tilting it or even cutting vents in it, but more likely I'll put it up for sale here so some other chump, err... lucky buyer can give it a shot.

That said:

• Anyone 5'9" to 5'11" ride with both the sport screen (or something similar) and no screen? How was it, long-term?
• Any other ideas? I've read all the windscreen threads at least a couple times now, but I'd love to hear from someone around my height that has something that gets decent reduction in wind noise and no buffeting - you know, like a real windscreen that works for 500 mile+ days.

I'm not sure what to do next - I'll probably try no screen and see how that is. After all, I have to pull the headlight to replace the busted lens so I may yank the little windscreen frame while I do that. I may also sell my soul and go with a bigger screen, but I'm gun-shy now. I don't want to have to buy a bunch of shields to find one that does what it's supposed to do, and I have an emotional opposition to slapping a goddamn Windjammer to the front of this bike. Other options include trying a new helmet, but that's more expensive than trying no screen, so that'll come later.

Since I know y'all love pictures, here are a couple.

[Snapping Twig]

Sorry to hear it didn't work out for you.

I'll agree that it's loud and doesn't effectively blow over your helmet, in fact mine hits me right at the faceplate.

I use custom silicone ear plugs and truth be told, they are just adequate, not excellent. Mine is a Shoei X-11 and there are more quiet helmets, like the 1000, but the ventilation is superior, so I leave the 1000 in the closet and run the X-11.

Ceebailey could add a laminar lip and add an inch or so to this screen and I am convinced it would be right.

My recent road trip had plenty of bugs smeared on my visor. The last screen I had on my Virago was a Spitfire and as small as it was, it was 100% effective. Many a bug went over my helmet when they hit that wind stream.

For the noise, I found it turned into background hum as I logged the miles. I'm pretty immune to it now.

Whatever the case, it's worlds different than the OEM sport screen. There's zero chest buffeting with the Ceebailey, couldn't say that with the OEM.

These bikes have a reputation for windscreen buffeting issues. I suppose there's some more costly windscreens in the 3 ~ 4 hundred arena that might be better, but that's a lot of scratch to try them out.

Good luck with whatever solutions you find. Let us know as you find them. Might just follow your lead if you find the right answer.

[lynnboyd]

Anyone 5'9" to 5'11" ride with both the sport screen (or something similar) and no screen? How was it, long-term? Any other ideas? I've read all the windscreen threads at least a couple times now, but I'd love to hear from someone around my height that has something that gets decent reduction in wind noise and no buffeting - you know, like a real windscreen that works for 500 mile+ days.

SF,
If you've read all the windshield threads you've see the one titled "Solved the windshield dilemma" at viewtopic.php?f=20&t=22292. I have the Memphis Shades Alley Cat pictured in that thread. It's shaped a little like the Cee Bailey sport shield but wider and maybe a little higher. I think the reason it works so well for me (I'm 5'10" with a 32" inseam) is that it's tilted back more than the stock bracket allows and it comes down the sides of the headlight to prevent the wind tunnel effect up through the tank cut-out. I've used it for 12,000 miles or so year-round. It's the fifth windshield I've tried, in addition to no shield, and I wouldn't change it.
Lynn

[SF_Hooligan]

Sorry to hear it didn't work out for you.

I'll agree that it's loud and doesn't effectively blow over your helmet, in fact mine hits me right at the faceplate.

I use custom silicone ear plugs and truth be told, they are just adequate, not excellent. Mine is a Shoei X-11 and there are more quiet helmets, like the 1000, but the ventilation is superior, so I leave the 1000 in the closet and run the X-11.

Ceebailey could add a laminar lip and add an inch or so to this screen and I am convinced it would be right.

My recent road trip had plenty of bugs smeared on my visor. The last screen I had on my Virago was a Spitfire and as small as it was, it was 100% effective. Many a bug went over my helmet when they hit that wind stream.

For the noise, I found it turned into background hum as I logged the miles. I'm pretty immune to it now.

Whatever the case, it's worlds different than the OEM sport screen. There's zero chest buffeting with the Ceebailey, couldn't say that with the OEM.

These bikes have a reputation for windscreen buffeting issues. I suppose there's some more costly windscreens in the 3 ~ 4 hundred arena that might be better, but that's a lot of scratch to try them out.

Good luck with whatever solutions you find. Let us know as you find them. Might just follow your lead if you find the right answer.

Interesting. I feel the wind coming over the screen hitting me square in the chest, just under my collarbones. I actually don't even care about that - my primary goal is to save my already long-abused hearing. For me, the noise from this screen to fade to background. I've never been so uncomfortable on a bike (because of noise) and I've been riding on the street for twenty-something years. There's a constant rumbling and physical shaking around my helmet, not just noise coming in under. There is a nice quiet bubble if I lay down on the tank, though.

I have read that a lot of the custom plugs, although comfortable for longer periods, don't block as much as some of the good foam ones. I alternate between some Etymotic plugs (pretty quiet) and foam plugs (very quiet) but the noise from this screen is way too much even for the quiet foam plugs.

Agreed that a touch more height and a flip at the top could solve a lot of this. Glad it's working out for you. Need a spare?

SF,
If you've read all the windshield threads you've see the one titled "Solved the windshield dilemma" at viewtopic.php?f=20&t=22292. I have the Memphis Shades Alley Cat pictured in that thread. It's shaped a little like the Cee Bailey sport shield but wider and maybe a little higher. I think the reason it works so well for me (I'm 5'10" with a 32" inseam) is that it's tilted back more than the stock bracket allows and it comes down the sides of the headlight to prevent the wind tunnel effect up through the tank cut-out. I've used it for 12,000 miles or so year-round. It's the fifth windshield I've tried, in addition to no shield, and I wouldn't change it.
Lynn

I did see that thread and looked at the Memphis Shades screens because of it. I'm toying with the idea of trying a similar mounting arrangement with this one to see if I can make it quieter - the trouble is time right now. The CB screen sat for a week before I could install it and that's just 4 bolts!

Your screen has the hangy-downs around the headlight, which I'm a fan of - the Cal Sci and Z-Teknik screens have pretty pronounced coverage in this area as well. There's also been some discussion here of Gen 1 vs Gen 2 CB screens and whether the Gen 1 might be better for folks with a tank bag, etc.

The thread you linked started on the topic of my next tactic - no screen at all. I don't care much about bugs, although I would like to protect the gauges a bit - just trying to protect my ears. I've been lusting after a Schuberth C3 for some time - if no windscreen is ok with my Qwest, I may just do that. Just need to see about installation of my Sena SMH-10 in the Schuberth - I've had issues with non-brand intercom installs in modulars (Nolan) in the past.

So I'll try no screen and if that's no bueno, I'll probably put together a spreadsheet of dimensions and re-read all these damn threads to try to sort out what might be best before I throw several hundred bucks at another screen. I'd be inclined to use the BMW touring mount, as that opens up more options - but it then rules out the Wudo and Z-Technik screens.

Thanks y'all.

[Lost Rider]

I don't want to have to buy a bunch of shields to find one that does what it's supposed to do, and I have an emotional opposition to slapping a goddamn Windjammer to the front of this bike.

Yup.

The bigger the screen , the more pressure from compressed air = more noise, and the more buffeting in my experience. And that's not even taking aesthetics into consideration….


As I've said before the BMW touring screen is the perfect compromise for me, I'm 5'11". Not sure what they offer for your newer bike though.
Keeps the wind pressure off your chest, helmet is in clean air, I can ride without earplugs or even have my face shield open at 2 lane highway speeds. Comes off with 2 screws in less than a minute. Enough protection for 1000+ mile days and doesn't look like a Windjammer.

YRMV

[lynnboyd]

I've been lusting after a Schuberth C3 for some time - if no windscreen is ok with my Qwest, I may just do that.

SF,
I really like the Schuberth C3 also. You might take a look at http://sharp.direct.gov.uk/testsratings/schuberth-c3 before you decide.
Lynn

[Woland]

I don't want to have to buy a bunch of shields to find one that does what it's supposed to do, and I have an emotional opposition to slapping a goddamn Windjammer to the front of this bike.

Yup.

The bigger the screen , the more pressure from compressed air = more noise, and the more buffeting in my experience. And that's not even taking aesthetics into consideration….


As I've said before the BMW touring screen is the perfect compromise for me.

YRMV

+1. At 6'4" I cant ride screenless or with the sport screen without getting an awful lot of wind in my chest when my speed picks up. BMW touring screen is a fair compromise, you get more turbulence than without a screen but not directed at your head.

Still if all you want is a quieter ride and don't care about wind in the chest just take the screen off. Doesn't get more turbulence free than that.

And I still say that those who put barn doors on naked bikes have missed the point

[jrvip1]

If you want clean air, buy a Goldwing.

I have the tall BMW screen. I tried taller screens and they gave me turbulence and buffeting and booming noise right on the sweet spot. Now I enjoy a low down screen. I still have the Cee Bailey 21" which I might use in Winter.

[deilenberger]

Snapping_Twig (name?) said:

For the noise, I found it turned into background hum as I logged the miles. I'm pretty immune to it now.

That isn't a good thing. To me that's a sign you've lost some of your hearing. The noise doesn't decrease by itself, so something else changed, to me - that points to a hearing loss.

SF_Hooligan said:

Agreed that a touch more height and a flip at the top could solve a lot of this.

Actually, the flip at the top is not what's wanted. People seem to think this will push the air up higher.. but it really doesn't. What it does is creates a greater vacuum behind the shield right at the air separation point (the top edge) causing it to collapse behind the screen to fill the vacuum. That's the cause of turbulence. A further tilt has been shown to greatly decrease turbulence time and time again on these bikes. The reason is simple, less vacuum being formed behind the screen results in less air collapsing which equals less noise and turbulence.

Try this simple mind game.. try thinking of a 2'x2' piece of plywood, and you're holding it right in front of your body while you stand on a car doing 60MPH. Holding it so it's large 2x2 exposure is facing into the wind blast. Then think about turning it so the edge is facing into the wind blast. Thats the two extremes of tilting the windshield, bolt upright or flat. The 2x2 exposure will push you right off the car. The edge facing the wind blast will receive very little force.

I suspect I've tried more windshields then anyone here.. I currently have at least 6-7 of them in my garage. I've tried them in all sorts of positions/angles on the bike, and for a while was working with one noted windshield manufacturer in trying to solve the turbulence problem his screens caused on the bikes. What surprised him was tilting the screen back toward the rider lessened the turbulence (exactly the opposite of what he suggested trying and expected.)

My conclusion has been - there is no perfect screen (on this bike, and I suspect most other bikes.) If you want a screen for protection, you give up something else in return. Usually noise and turbulence. There are a few semi-fairings made for the R1200R that people have reported good results with, but I've never tried riding behind one. If you look at those - the screens typically form a bubble shape above the instrument cluster, leading sharply back toward the rider. None of the clear screens I've seen have done this and perhaps that's the problem. I suspect they haven't because of the difficulty in mounting them cleanly on the bike. You can hide ugly brackets behind a semi-fairing sort of screen (which usually has an opaque bottom section made from Fiberglas.) Harder to do on an all-clear screen.

I think the chap at Cee-Bailey who was working with a member here to develop a new R12R windscreen at one point mentioned he couldn't flow the top back as much as might work because it wouldn't be marketable. People wouldn't like how it looked. Since I'm function over form, if it worked right, I'd be delighted how it looks, but I'll accept that I'm probably in the minority.

If anyone wants to try screens out - and can get to NJ - I'm always open to mounting them up on your bike and off'ya go on a ride.. They're mostly just gathering dust on the shelves.. but it has to be you come to me. They are a PITA to ship.. (big oversize boxes are needed.)

[gaweston]

I have tried the BMW touring screen, and the smaller sport screen.Then I bought a C3 helmet and have been riding without a screen,and with Hearos plugs.No buffeting roar. The C3 is very quiet looking straight ahead, but you'll feel like you're wearing an airplane rudder when you turn your head.I have had a silent experience on a bike; last fall I tried a K1600GTL and with the screen full up it was very quiet. I didn't like looking through the screen however. Good luck

[xprof]

Don, I think what Joe Duvall at Cee Bailey told me was that he couldn't put the edge of the screen too close to the customer's face, 'cause it kind of made them flinch. But in fact the closer you get your face to the top edge, the smoother the flow seems (at least to me and to Joe). I tilted my CeeBailey back 1/2" with a custom Don C block, the top edge no more than 18" from my nose, and it is damn near perfect for me. Don't lose heart, you seekers of the perfect shield; it can be done. Just keep fiddling!

And to those of you who just can't see putting a shield on a naked bike: I hear you! Naked is great! I had nothing but naked for many decades. But now that I'm old (and I ride open-face), what I need is "something less than an RT". The "R" with a decent shield is that bike for me. And if you come to visit me, I won't give up an inch to you on California 33! Our "Roadster" is that bike that can do it all: hooligan, sport, sport-touring, lady-on-the-back and cross-country. Can't we all get along? (Thanks to the late Rodney King for that...)

[websterize]

I have tried the BMW touring screen, and the smaller sport screen.Then I bought a C3 helmet and have been riding without a screen,and with Hearos plugs.No buffeting roar.

I concur but with Etymotic earbuds and some Creedence instead of the C3's seashell silence.

[angellr]

I have tried the BMW touring screen, and the smaller sport screen.Then I bought a C3 helmet and have been riding without a screen,and with Hearos plugs.No buffeting roar.

I concur but with Etymotic earbuds and some Creedence instead of the C3's seashell silence.

+1 on the Etymotic *and* Creedence ... with some Zappa, Dead, Zeppelin, Clapton, Floyd ... thrown in for good measure.

[MTBeemer]

I use a Parabellum Scout fairing. I ride most of the time with a 20 inch screen, and when on long trips I will add Saeng Micro-Swirl and a Touratech clamp-on Windscreen Spoiler. With the Spoiler and Micro-Swirl mounted there is very little turbelence and it is as quiet as my R1200RT with a Laminar Lip mounted. Without the add-ons the noise level rises but not to an unreasonable amount. I have a C3 helmet and can ride with the visor fullly opened behind the Scout; normally the C3 will not allow you to ride at speed with the visor raised above the first (City) level. I have a 6 inch screen that is good for around town in hot weather; with the shorty mounted I'm in the wind from the mid-chest up. The Scout also has a small dash board for mounting items like switches, a Battery Bug and any other gage you want to add. Screens are available in several lengths and can be used to tune the set-up to the rider. I like it.

[SF_Hooligan]

I've been lusting after a Schuberth C3 for some time - if no windscreen is ok with my Qwest, I may just do that.

SF,
I really like the Schuberth C3 also. You might take a look at http://sharp.direct.gov.uk/testsratings/schuberth-c3 before you decide.
Lynn

I know the SHARP website and use it every time I shop for helmets. Thanks for posting - everyone who rides should know about that resource. The Shoei Neotec not being tested there yet is one reason I haven't seriously considered that lid - as far as I know, SHARP is the only public data on whether modulars stay closed.

A further tilt has been shown to greatly decrease turbulence time and time again on these bikes. The reason is simple, less vacuum being formed behind the screen results in less air collapsing which equals less noise and turbulence.

Thanks for this reminder. I considered propping up the bottom of the shield to to test this, but I think I'll go full naked first for a baseline.

I have tried the BMW touring screen, and the smaller sport screen.Then I bought a C3 helmet and have been riding without a screen,and with Hearos plugs.No buffeting roar.

I concur but with Etymotic earbuds and some Creedence instead of the C3's seashell silence.

+1 on the Etymotic *and* Creedence ... with some Zappa, Dead, Zeppelin, Clapton, Floyd ... thrown in for good measure.

I dig Creedence, but now that you've brought the Dead into this, the thread is ruined - I can't respond to anything else.

[Shakey]

I'm on my "third and a halfth" screen. i.e. a BMW touring screen but with one of those ugly wunderlich things bolted to the top.

Please could somebody explain what the DonC tilt block does (yeah, yeah, it tilts right?), where it fits, what it looks like and how it works? I can't find this info by searching this site.

[hetman]

Hey Hooligan-

I have a ZTechnik screen that came on mine when I bought it.. I took it off since it was buffeting for me on the freeway. You're welcome to try it though if you want.

[SF_Hooligan]

I'm on my "third and a halfth" screen. i.e. a BMW touring screen but with one of those ugly wunderlich things bolted to the top.

Please could somebody explain what the DonC tilt block does (yeah, yeah, it tilts right?), where it fits, what it looks like and how it works? I can't find this info by searching this site.

I hate the look of those things but thought about trying that too. My VFR had quite a flip at the top of the screen (forget who made it) and it seemed helpful. This runs contrary to what Don's saying above, and he seems to know what he's talking about. But Kevin also says above that it quiets things down for him.

I'd also like to know more about this fabled block. I'm guessing it results in a further slant back, like Don's talking about above.

Hey Hooligan-

I have a ZTechnik screen that came on mine when I bought it.. I took it off since it was buffeting for me on the freeway. You're welcome to try it though if you want.

Thanks man. Will PM you - I'd be interested in seeing what it looks like and what the height is, for further reference. We can get together and check out each other's parts.

That came out wrong. You know what I mean.

[deilenberger]

The Don-C block goes under the lower mount on the BMW touring screen mount - pre-2011 bikes, and lifts it up, effectively tilting it back, which in turn tilts the screen (increasing it's angle from vertical.) Don C makes these more or less to order, in different thicknesses. It also requires a slight tweak of the two arms that hold the mount on the top (nothing undoable if you don't like it..)

I'm not Don C, I'm Don E, but I endorse that product.. I have a modified touring screen mount where the bottom loop was extended about 1", doing the same thing as the Don-C block.

The 2011 models (and 2012) use a different screen mount, but it's actually easier to tilt back. These mount with two screws at the bottom to the bike. Simply making an extension piece with the right holes in it (and perhaps some speed nuts) will accomplish the same on the newer bikes. I made one for a friend, but we have yet to install it.

So far I know of no one who regrets tilting their screen back, but mebbe I missed something (or was out that day..)

[SF_Hooligan]

So I pulled the CB Sport Screen and the stock mounting thingy off and rode a couple hundred miles naked last night. Well, technically not naked, but without a screen. Jesus tapdancing Christ, what a difference! Amazing. Way quieter up to relatively fast freeway speeds - 75 or so. Above that it gets louder but it's still smoother than with the CB sporty and the BMW sport screen, if memory serves me right. No buffeting. I happily hauled ass up to Sacramento and back last night at 85 MPH or so, except when I was lane-splitting and was able to hear music from my SMH-10 'phones without totally cranking it, with my Etymotic plugs in. Amazing. My experience is similar to RadRider's, in the post lynnboyd linked to above.

Interestingly, if I raise my head a couple inches (higher than comfortable) it gets even quieter. Too bad I'm not taller. Also, if I really get down on the tank, it gets louder - lots of dirty air around the gauges/GPS/little tank bag.

I'm still tempted to mess around with tilting a small to medium screen, but I'll be riding naked for a while. In my opinion, the bike looks cooler with no screen too.