Slipping Clutch - 2005 R1150R with 18K

[DMM]

I brought my bike to a mechanic today and he confirmed my fear that the clutch is slipping. When accelerating, the engine revs and the tach shows the increase; however, the power doesn't make it to the rear wheel for a few seconds and then kicks in.

This has been intermittent over the past couple of months, but I expect it will continue to become progressively worse. The independent mechanic (specializing in BMWs) gave me an estimate of just over $1,000 to replace the clutch discs. I will ask around to get a feel for what others will charge. I would rather do the work myself, but time and space, and possibly some tools, are in short supply for me.

I noted a recommendation in here for a Siebenrock dry clutch that is oil resistant. It seems to be less expensive than OEM parts. Does anyone here have any experience and insight on this product?

Likewise, does anyone here have any recommendations or suggestions regarding replacing the clutch?

[CycleRob]

DMM,
OOPS! I answered your PM before seeing this msg. Your clutch is likely oil soaked. The indicator is: the power doesn't make it to the rear wheel for a few seconds and then (it) kicks in.
That's the oil burning or being squeezed away from the friction surfaces. Either the input shaft seal or clutch slave is leaking - - most likely it's the slave. Remove the rubber TDC plug and take a look and a smell (thru a pipe/hose if necessary) on a hot engine. That'll tell you which one is leaking. The Siebenrock dry clutch is $262.50 from eurotechmotorsports.com . . . that's 2x the
stock disc.

Another PM? This should be posted here.

[sweatmark]

I certainly defer to Rob for advice in this situation, insofar as he's a pro wrench, pulled his former R1150R apart to inspect clutch & splines, plus encountered a failed clutch slave... and thankfully documented the entire process for edification of our community here (thanks again Rob!).

Should I find a slipping clutch condition, I would replace clutch disc with OE part, as we've had no few if any reports of actual worn-out clutch parts until MANY miles' usage.

The "issue" is the presence of the oil or clutch slave fluid that has contaminated your clutch friction surfaces. Fix the fluid source problem, replace clutch disc as needed, and confirm condition of the clutch splines if/when bike is pulled apart.

[exiledrebel]

I had the same symptoms on my 04 at 4k miles. My clutch slave cylinder leaked which in turn compromised the gearbox seal, soaking the disc in oil. On my bike, I got a light smell of gear oil after riding it, followed shortly afterward by the sliping clutch.

I repaired it myself, following instructions that were posted online. It's a very involved, time-consuming job, but if you have some time and space, you can do it yourself. With that said, $1000 doesn't sound bad, if you don't mind spending the cash. If I had more money, I'd consider it well spent to have someone else do the work! YMMV, of course.
Greg

[AndyRR]

$1000 sounds a little high to me. The clutch itself will have to go - $150 and you either have a bad transmission seal - $20ish, or a bad clutch slave - around $200?. The transmission does not have to come apart to replace the seal.
The transmission will have to come out though - figure about 4-5 hours for an experienced mechanic to complete the repair. Maybe $1000 isn't too bad - what's the going rate for BMW?

Not to muddy the waters, but I suppose that a leaking seal at the engine's output shaft could also cause this, but I have yet to hear of one doing so.

I highly recommend CycleRob's mod of the clutch slave housing that allows a leak there to escape harmlessly rather than work it's way over to the clutch.

[MIXR]

A couple of things to check. Contrary to popular belief, an engine oil over-fill will not always 'burn-down' to the correct level. It depends on the quality of the oil. I recently changed oils to a very high quality diesel oil (Delo 400). I also accidentally put 600 ml too much oil in. Didn't bother draining it as it should 'burn down' like it always does.

I ended up with minor oil leaks everywhere! Potentially, some may have made it into the clutch. It takes very little oil to initiate a slipping clutch. The engine simply pressurised and I had small leaks all over the place.

The solution if you think the clutch is lightly contaminated, or unless you have confirmed that the oil level was correct, is to remove the RHS inspection plug (the timing mark plug) and spray about 4 cans of quality brake-clean across the clutch plate while turrning the rear wheel in gear with clutch lever in (and thus making the clutch plate turn). Use a brake cleaner that is marked as 'residue-free'. Make a small extension nozzle that enables you to get right on to the clutch plate. You can just see the clutch through the inspection port with a good small torch.

The residual fluid simply drains out the bottom of the housing with all the other crap that gets in there. The housing mating surface has small 'slits' cast in it to allow draining You are not hurting anything else in there, so long as you aim the nozzle at the clutch plate. The 'extra' fluid will also clean the rest of the clutch, but as a mist and not as a direct spray. It won't kill rear bearings etc. Allow it to dry out. It is highly volotile and evaporates quickly. Fit a new rubber blanking plug. Check the oil level is correct. The problem may be gone.

I always neglected to get the oil level 'just right' as it wasn't a problem on the R1150xx engine if you had a small overfill. However, high quality oils do not burn-down! Anyway - A few thousand kms later and my clutch is fine, I have no leaks from anywhere, and the bike is as good as ever. Note that this will only work if it's not a genuine case of a stuffed clutch, or the damage from slipping has been taken too far.

I'd be surprised that a clutch was gone at 18,000 miles unless severely abused.

[AndyRR]

Very happy to hear of someone resurrecting an oil-soaked clutch. It ought to burn off given the correct amount of heat and caution. No one would ever recommend it for liability or loss of profit issues. I hope to never try it.

[MIXR]

Not 'oil soaked' Andy. That would probably kill it. It only takes a minor bit of spotting or a few flicks of oil to make a clutch slip. The risk is that you keep 'flaring' the clutch trying to ride the bike while figuring out what's wrong. If you 'glaze' the plate, you are stuffed. No amount of oil removal will fix a glazed plate. My fix (thanks to my mate Rob who had a similar problem on an old Peugot 504 car) was being able to 'wash' the residual oil out of the clutch housing. It saved a heap of dollars on what a dealer would have said was an automatic clutch replacement, at great expense. It may not have been contaminated at all as the feeling of light slip seemed to be curing itself anyway.

Overfilling is now a big no-no for me. It's amazing where oil will leak from when the oil gets hot and expands, and the engine breather can't cope. Oh - I also pulled about 10 ml from the airbox! That's also a good place to check if you have done an over-fill. Just undo the drain plug at the back left of the airbox and see what comes out. Hopefully nothing but air!

By the way - I loved my old R so much, that I've gone and bought an R1150GS Adventure. 'Found' a 2002 model WITHOUT ABS and Servo Brakes for a good price and only 25,000 miles on it. Been pretty much sitting in a shed for the past two and a half years, and only did 5,000 miles in that time! First owner was a 70 year old bloke. Second owner has a small farming property and had no time to ride it. I did 3,000 miles in the first week of ownership! Gotta love the R1150XX. Great bikes.

[DMM]

Hey all. Thank you for the replies. I've been away on business for over a week and am just returning to life at home.

Replaced the clutch assembly, but went with the Sibenrock plate. I went that route after speaking with someone who had personal experience with the plate; he believed that they held up better in the face of oil leaking into the plate assembly/housing. It did cost more (I purchased it for about $80 more than the OEM part), but I am hoping that it will hold up better than the OEM plate.

Splines looked fine.

Yes, Rob, you had the smell correct. The clutch had been burning and slipping for the past 6 months. The smell wasn't that noticeable until the past couple of months, when I really wasn't riding it due to the ice and snow. The plates wear areas were worn to the base, in comparison to the new parts - it was a dramatic difference in appearance alone. The bike is riding like new - responsive and smooth.

Again, thanks to everyone for the responses.

-DMM

[psychodeathbot]

I made the mistake of over-filling and now I'm trying to clean the friction plate with brake cleaner. I'm wondering if it's possible to damage the input/output seals since the brake cleaners I've run across indicate they'll damage rubber and painted surfaces (is the inside of the housing powder-coated too?). Thoughts?

[MIXR]

Used it extensively and it didn't hurt anything inside the bell housing where the clutch lives. Also has never hurt the brakes, wheels or anything related. Then again, I did checked the can for any warnings and didn't find anything specific. Most bike parts (rubber and paint) are not affected by this type of fluid. Try a different can and see if it carries the same warning. I use it regularly as part of my maintenance cleaning these days, particularly for cleaning brake pad slide pins and slide surfaces. You need to re-grease them afterwards.