Deja vu. Splines again.

[AndyRR]

I could swear I remember reading somewhere that there is an easier way to change the transmission fluid. This is the only way I ever do it:



The clutch was as expected.



And yes, the transmission will need to be rebuilt.



Both of the final drive pivot bearings are feeling a little rough too. They only have 20k miles on them as well as I replaced them the last time I changed transmission fluid. From start of job to transmission on bench - about 2 hours. I HATE that I''m getting good at this. It was a little easier this time as I didn't have the super tough , hex wrench twisting, loc-tite on the pivot bolts. I put purple (sissy) loc-tite on them last time and torqued to spec. They still had to be heated somewhat before they gave up.

[mjcraft]

This is not good.

All that work it 2hrs is impressive, though!

How many miles on the clutch/bike?

[AndyRR]

I inspected the splines at 35k miles (in the off season), found that they were badly worn and went through a very lengthy process of trying to improve the flawed design. In the end, I gave up and installed new BMW parts with the exception of the offset transmission mounting dowels that I had made. They obviously didn't help and I'll be getting new factory dowels now.
Bike now has 54,500 miles, so the clutch didn't make it 20k miles.

[sweatmark]

Sorry to see this Andy.

First heard of the R1150** clutch spline problem from a friend with RT, who went through 3 sets of transmission input shafts and clutch discs... he sold the bike after that "3rd strike". IIRC, his spline repair interval was 30-35k miles.

So, does the transmission input shaft wear look similar to 1st instance? Your experience - along with friend described above - lends credence to the theories about aligment for particular bikes' engine and transmission castings. I'm not completely sold on that concept, but don't have a credible alternative explanation.

This reminds me: did that guy from ADV in Canada ever report on the performance of the prototype transmission input shaft with longer spline area?

[b12bandit]

Mine's a 2002 R1150R. 37,000 miles and I'm just waiting for my clutch/transmission to fail.

We've had this discussion before. Should I get rid now or hang on to the bike and wait for the inevitable? Or is it inevitable? Am I being too pessimistic?

Anyone out there got reliable figures on just how many of our 1150's are having transmission failure? What do BMW say about it? It's clearly a manufacturing fault. Are they offering any assistance or simply ignoring it?

I read posts like this, then I look at my bike and think 'it's got to go'. I must sell it before it fails and becomes a worthless pile of scrap.

C'mon guys. Persuade me to keep the faith and hang on to my 1150R.

[ColumbiaBMW]

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=22382

@b12bandit, look at the above post if you haven't seen it yet. It's not a large set of numbers, but it is right in line so far with what the poll on ADVrider.com is saying. And that poll has a lot larger sampling of answers than this one. (I would include the link to that poll also, but my work blocks advrider for some reason...)

[gregor]

I think many riders like me only do a low mileage and have not hit the problem. My 2002 bike has only done 18,000 miles.

[jm1515]

Mine just went ~6weeks ago at just a a hair under 50k miles. Splines on both sides looked exactly like your pics.
I replaced everything from the flywheel on back on the clutch side, including a new slave cylinder....$1000 in parts.
Tranny sent to Dr Cutter @ RCRG for rebuild. All new bearings, seals and of course the input shaft...$1000 parts & labor.
I'm doing the tear down & re-assembly. $ = priceless in terms of knowledge.

This will be the only time tho... next time (? ) I'll part it out and buy a Honda....

[AndyRR]

Spline failures don't happen to every r1150x. There seems to be a misalignment either with the transmission case or somewhere in the clutch assy. A reputable BMW wrench in my area recommends replacing all the clutch components as you did. I was planning on taking a look at the splines this winter with the assumption I could make it 30k. Instead, they failed when I was 600+ miles from home. It might be a good idea to take a look at yours in the off-season.

Here's my first input shaft:



Looks a lot better than my current one, but the first one was found prior to complete failure.

I was thinking about my options with this bike. I'm going to fix it and trade it in on something. The next question is what to get? It's got to have 3 locking hard cases and be comfortable enough for all day rides (more comfortable the r1150r would be nice) Here's the short list so far...

Kawi Concours - decent price and fast. Comfort is a ?? Hard to find one to test drive. Could be like a ST1300.

Ducati Multistrada 1200 - pricey sexy fast. Chain drive though.

ST1300 - looks good on paper, but boring boring boring to ride. Not really on the list.

R1200RT - pricey but otherwise OK. Downer - made by the same company who's name I'm cursing now.

R1200R - decent price, lightweight and I would probably love it. Downer - see R1200RT.

HD Electra Glide Ultra Limited - comfortable for rider and passenger, plenty of dealers around that are open on Sundays and Mondays, good resale value, sound system, ride-by-wire, cruise, ABS, etc... BUT - PRICEY , 900 lbs and would require me to rip the sleaves off my shirts, get tattoos and grow facial hair etc..

[towerworker]

AndyRR--

Your shop and workbench looks so clean!! One would think it was made for working on your bike. Sad to think we need to have a shop for tranny tear-downs. I wonder when mine will go. Maybe mine has lasted this far because it has set for the past year.

Best of luck and regards

wayne

[sweatmark]

I was thinking about my options with this bike. I'm going to fix it and trade it in on something... Here's the short list so far...
Kawi Concours
Ducati Multistrada 1200
ST1300
R1200RT - pricey but otherwise OK. Downer - made by the same company who's name I'm cursing now.
R1200R - decent price, lightweight and I would probably love it. Downer - see R1200RT.
HD Electra Glide Ultra Limited - comfortable for rider and passenger, plenty of dealers around that are open on Sundays and Mondays, good resale value, sound system, ride-by-wire, cruise, ABS, etc... BUT - PRICEY , 900 lbs...

Andy - The splines thing always touches a nerve with me, and I share in your company-cursing for a beloved brand. In the aftermath of that big "clutch splines" thread we had here some years back, creative juices and andrenaline mixed to produce the "BMW Ruindel" avatar, which I'm embarrassed to show again:



As for bike options, I would note that the F800 bikes seem to be good machines aside from a few character flaws; we're still happy with the trade-in F800S we got in exchange for R1150R Roadster. At the time of trade-in, I simply refused to suffer excess exposure to spline failures with two R1150** bikes in the garage. Unfortunately, the F800 is just too small a platform for two-up riding, and thus doesn't meet your criteria... the belt drive is sure nice though, and I'm a believer after years as Buell XB rider.

If & when my Rockster self-destructs, the bike choice will be tough. Another BMW? Doubtful, as pricing is crazy considering the R1150** experience. In response to your Harley option: every few months I write a quick email to H-D requesting that the "Motor Company" build a decent sports touring bike. Of course, there's never a response, but I find the process cathartic. Shame that we don't have a Made in America option that is similar in function to the R1150R or R1150RT - including the key-matched locking luggage, comfortable pillion accomodations, simple air/oil-cooled motor, and <600lbs wet weight.

[MIXR]

Sorry to see one of these with a persistent spline problem.

Mine was pulled down at 100,000 kilometres (60,000 + miles) for broken ring-gear teeth and the splines looked like new. I pulled it down again at 155,000 kilometres (almost 100,000 miles) for some clutch cleaning and the splines still looked like new! They don't 'all do that'! Maybe it's mis-alignment, or hard use. Mine was a long-distance bike, so maybe that's more gentle on the splines. Either way, I'm sorry to see you have the problem a second time. That's a poor reflection on BMW quality.

As for what to buy - Try a Yam 1200 Tenere. I bet you'll be cursing it for other reasons long before you would be due for a third set of splines in the R. I had such a beautiful run out of my R (even with the flywheel issue) that I just hate reading threads like yours. Good luck with it Andy. Hope you can find a suitable beverage to get the bad BMW taste out of your system.

[AndyRR]

AndyRR--

Your shop and workbench looks so clean!! One would think it was made for working on your bike. Sad to think we need to have a shop for tranny tear-downs. I wonder when mine will go. Maybe mine has lasted this far because it has set for the past year.

Best of luck and regards

wayne

Funny you say that. I threw that bench together so I would have a place to work on the trans. You can see that the lower shelf is incomplete. Otherwise, it would have waited.

Sorry to see one of these with a persistent spline problem.

Mine was pulled down at 100,000 kilometres (60,000 + miles) for broken ring-gear teeth and the splines looked like new. I pulled it down again at 155,000 kilometres (almost 100,000 miles) for some clutch cleaning and the splines still looked like new! They don't 'all do that'! Maybe it's mis-alignment, or hard use. Mine was a long-distance bike, so maybe that's more gentle on the splines. Either way, I'm sorry to see you have the problem a second time. That's a poor reflection on BMW quality.

As for what to buy - Try a Yam 1200 Tenere. I bet you'll be cursing it for other reasons long before you would be due for a third set of splines in the R. I had such a beautiful run out of my R (even with the flywheel issue) that I just hate reading threads like yours. Good luck with it Andy. Hope you can find a suitable beverage to get the bad BMW taste out of your system.

Not all R1150s have this problem for sure. Hopefully it's a small percentage. I haven't seen ANY that have the clutch fully engage the input shaft. If it's aligned properly, there's enough material to withstand the load.

I'll be sure to give the Tenere another look. Seem to remember they were pricey for a Jap bike. I'm not really into off-roading. I ride a dirt road almost every day because I live in the boonies, but an off-road machine isn't required. I ride for work and have myself and 50 lbs of tools and equipment. It's gotta have good luggage capability. I can't look at GS's cause - nothing personal- they hurt my eyes.

[MIXR]

A couple of our long-distance guys are running the Super Ten. They seem to make a fine touring road bike, and have a decent alternator as well.

Have to agree about the looks of the GS - Butt ugly from most angles ................................. But I love riding the thing.

[AndyRR]

MIXR - I am very jealous of your dog transporting ability. My 6 mo old pup is already 50+ lbs. I had hopes that once I retired the R1150R from daily duty, I could put a sidecar on it. I doubt the clutch would last 100 miles with that load. I've also seen a pic of a guy trailering his dog behind his Harley. I gotta think the dog would be breathing exhaust fumes the whole trip, but a neat idea anyway. Maybe I'll start a post on that and see if others on this forum have ideas.