I carefully measured mileage for primary and secondary spark plugs.
The results are that changing primary spark plugs is needed every 5k miles and secondary spark plugs ask to be replaced every 3.5k miles. The secondary ones coming out fouled no matter what brand or what type platinum, cooper or iridium I have used.
I'm using the correct heat range and gap and I do have spark generated by the coils. They work nicely when new recently installed, the problem is that they start to work bad to soon.
Primary plugs look a bit white. Secondary plugs very different dark brown, a bit oily and with some deposits. No oil at all on the primary plugs. I wouldn't believe that the two belong to the same bike if I was not me that took both out from it.
Is this normal? Does the R1150R 2004 require changing spark plugs SO FREQUENTLY?
Specially the secondary plugs?
R1150R 2004 spark plugs need frequent change.
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eduardobelmonte
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Re: R1150R 2004 spark plugs need frequent change.
In my experience spark plugs last a reasonably long time. I've changed primary and secondary plugs once in 25k miles. The secondary plugs were a bit oily as you described, but the primary plugs could have been reused.
What kind of plugs do you use and what are the symptoms you are having that lead you to suspect plugs?
What kind of plugs do you use and what are the symptoms you are having that lead you to suspect plugs?
2004 Rockster
Re: R1150R 2004 spark plugs need frequent change.
If the plugs are a bit white that maybe normal. The important thing to notice is that both left and right cylinders have equally colored plugs.
If it was me, I would run a can or two of Seafoam to clean up the fuel system. Adjust the T/B's and sync the cables, check valve adjustment, then replace both stick coils and all 4 spark plugs.
I change my plugs every year, which is ~15+K miles. Not that they are worn out, but as a matter of my maintenance program.
John
If it was me, I would run a can or two of Seafoam to clean up the fuel system. Adjust the T/B's and sync the cables, check valve adjustment, then replace both stick coils and all 4 spark plugs.
I change my plugs every year, which is ~15+K miles. Not that they are worn out, but as a matter of my maintenance program.
John
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eduardobelmonte
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Re: R1150R 2004 spark plugs need frequent change.
I've used Autolite 3923 and NGK BPR7EKC-N as primaries and
Bosch YR6LDE, CHAMPION RA8HC and finally NGK IRIDIUM DCPR7EIX for the secondaries.
This iridiums in an effort to see if things got better, but they went worse. I suspect the heat range of the iridium plug is colder than the RA8HC to explain why I did not get a better performance and durability with them.
The big problem is with the secondary plugs. I'm suspecting I should go with a hotter plug specially if a consider using NGK iridiums again ( perhaps a DCPR6EIX. mean the RA8HC which I believe are a little bit hotter didn't come out as black and fouled as the iridiums.
Spark plugs on both sides look pretty similar.
Misfiring specially on heavy acceleration characterize bad primary plugs. Heavy engine brake when decelerating is felt when secondary plugs are bad. I've changed the primaries and secondaries not at the same time and I feel an immediate change, the symptoms go away.
I just changed the four plugs and the bike runs good, only problem I feel is a little misfiring when accelerating hard and near 6k rpms. But it is really an almost imperceivable thing.
I just bought two new sticks for the primaries, I'll have them in 10 days. I'll see what happens and let you guys know. The sticks look both a bit eroded by oxidation at this point in time. I thought though they were good, because when using new plugs I have no problems whatsoever.
Question I have for jcridge..., when you change plugs after 15k do you feel a real difference. Would you have noticed it if you were not told the plugs were changed? I mean..., with 15k miles most probably plugs won't be producing as good a combustion in the cylinders. I agree that 15k can be possible, other bikes I've ridden much harder than the BMW permitted much more spark plug mileage than I'm getting now.
Now regarding Seafoam, what amount per tank you guys use? Using to much could be bad?
Finally a general question for everybody would be what plugs are you using that give you good performance and durability.
On the meantime thanks for helping me out
with your comments and info.
Eduardo
Bosch YR6LDE, CHAMPION RA8HC and finally NGK IRIDIUM DCPR7EIX for the secondaries.
This iridiums in an effort to see if things got better, but they went worse. I suspect the heat range of the iridium plug is colder than the RA8HC to explain why I did not get a better performance and durability with them.
The big problem is with the secondary plugs. I'm suspecting I should go with a hotter plug specially if a consider using NGK iridiums again ( perhaps a DCPR6EIX. mean the RA8HC which I believe are a little bit hotter didn't come out as black and fouled as the iridiums.
Spark plugs on both sides look pretty similar.
Misfiring specially on heavy acceleration characterize bad primary plugs. Heavy engine brake when decelerating is felt when secondary plugs are bad. I've changed the primaries and secondaries not at the same time and I feel an immediate change, the symptoms go away.
I just changed the four plugs and the bike runs good, only problem I feel is a little misfiring when accelerating hard and near 6k rpms. But it is really an almost imperceivable thing.
I just bought two new sticks for the primaries, I'll have them in 10 days. I'll see what happens and let you guys know. The sticks look both a bit eroded by oxidation at this point in time. I thought though they were good, because when using new plugs I have no problems whatsoever.
Question I have for jcridge..., when you change plugs after 15k do you feel a real difference. Would you have noticed it if you were not told the plugs were changed? I mean..., with 15k miles most probably plugs won't be producing as good a combustion in the cylinders. I agree that 15k can be possible, other bikes I've ridden much harder than the BMW permitted much more spark plug mileage than I'm getting now.
Now regarding Seafoam, what amount per tank you guys use? Using to much could be bad?
Finally a general question for everybody would be what plugs are you using that give you good performance and durability.
On the meantime thanks for helping me out
with your comments and info.Eduardo
Re: R1150R 2004 spark plugs need frequent change.
The 15K miles is a good number, after that I start to see performance dropping off.
Yeah I see a difference, buts its not large enough to to move my program.
Now when I change the plugs, I also run a tank of Seafoam ( 6oz/ 4 gals) 1 tank prior, to really clean out the system, then fill the tank with straight 93 octane. I then check valve adjustment, change the oil and air filter, sync the T/B's and check timing. I do the tune in the Fall, usually just after the MOA mileage contest is over. ( October) so I have a fresh tune going through the winter months. I will check everything again in the spring to make sure all is well for summer. I will tell you that I will change the sparkplugs if I have a long trip planned, just as a peace of mind, kind of like tires, I try to work tires changes in just before a trip as well.
I use Seafoam once a month for one tank, 4 ounces per full tank. This has serviced me well for the past 3 years. I usually run about two tanks a week for most of the year.
I haven't experienced any problems with sparkplugs, I've been running NGK and Bosch factory numbered plugs.
Stick Coils are the single most problemamatic issue I've seen on the twin sparks, most other issues are caused by poor tune by the owners. I have not run across HE sensor issues...yet.
Before you do anything else, you should check stick coil operation. You can simply remove the plastic cover, start the bike and then carefully pull back on the electrical connection to the coil, if the bike starts to run poorly when you unplug the stick coil, the stick coil is good. I have performed this only to find out there is no difference or very little differnce when unplugging the connection, bad stick coils... You are getting new coils anyway, but it would be nice to know which if any are bad or failing.
John
Yeah I see a difference, buts its not large enough to to move my program.
Now when I change the plugs, I also run a tank of Seafoam ( 6oz/ 4 gals) 1 tank prior, to really clean out the system, then fill the tank with straight 93 octane. I then check valve adjustment, change the oil and air filter, sync the T/B's and check timing. I do the tune in the Fall, usually just after the MOA mileage contest is over. ( October) so I have a fresh tune going through the winter months. I will check everything again in the spring to make sure all is well for summer. I will tell you that I will change the sparkplugs if I have a long trip planned, just as a peace of mind, kind of like tires, I try to work tires changes in just before a trip as well.
I use Seafoam once a month for one tank, 4 ounces per full tank. This has serviced me well for the past 3 years. I usually run about two tanks a week for most of the year.
I haven't experienced any problems with sparkplugs, I've been running NGK and Bosch factory numbered plugs.
Stick Coils are the single most problemamatic issue I've seen on the twin sparks, most other issues are caused by poor tune by the owners. I have not run across HE sensor issues...yet.
Before you do anything else, you should check stick coil operation. You can simply remove the plastic cover, start the bike and then carefully pull back on the electrical connection to the coil, if the bike starts to run poorly when you unplug the stick coil, the stick coil is good. I have performed this only to find out there is no difference or very little differnce when unplugging the connection, bad stick coils... You are getting new coils anyway, but it would be nice to know which if any are bad or failing.
John
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rockstercliff
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Re: R1150R 2004 spark plugs need frequent change.
Change mine every 12K, never needed to do it more often than that, using a little seafoam every so often is always a good idea, I do it in my bikes and my cars, 1/4 a can every 3rd tank on the bikes, 1/2 can every month in the cars.
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revtexdave
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Re: R1150R 2004 spark plugs need frequent change.
I would also suggest you make sure your fuel is in fact premium and because of the Ethanol get not only the Seafoam for H2O, but there is a small bottles of P.i. --improves fuel mileage an average of 2.3% and up to 5.7%. Reduces emissions such as hydrocarbons (HC) up to 15%, carbon monoxide (CO) up to 26% and nitrous oxides (NOx) up to 17%. Restores power and performance. Reduces the need for costly higher octane fuel. (API) It is by AMSoil... which also has the best specs on synthetic oils. My mileage improved from 41 back to 48 mpg.
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eduardobelmonte
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Re: R1150R 2004 spark plugs need frequent change.
Hi, my friends,
While waiting for the new sticks to arrive I passed by Harbor Freight and bought for 7 bucks an In line Spark Checker For Recessed Plugs, Item 97577.
It contains three parts, only two needed for the R1150R.
On being the long stick that connects to the plug and the other
being the part that has a bulb that lights revealing whether you have spark or not.
The long stick has some thin fins at the end that connect to the spark plug, just cut them with a scissor so it has the same size and shape as the BMW stick that normally attaches to the plug.
You start by connecting the first part to the plug then its other end to the second part, and finally the coil stick to its other end. Once you have this connected, just start the bike and see if you see a red light in the second part. Being able to see it means you do have a good spark and a good stick and vice-versa.
Using this Checker, I was able to determine very clearly that my left coil stick is BAD, it produced no light in the tester. To verify it was the stick and not the cable that connects to it I swapped the left and right coil sticks and verified that the initial "left coil stick" was not generating spark on the right side either.
I agree that unplugging the coil sticks may be one way of finding out which may be bad, but using this tester you are able to easily try different rpms, and to visually see the amount of light present and that it is proportional to the rpms in the engine. It's easy to use and leaves no doubt.
Cutting away those fins is easy, they are thin and spaced enough for you to do it without mistakes or problems.
Well..., now I know "I DO HAVE a bad coil stick".
Thanks for the suggestions.
I'll post what the results are when the spare parts arrive and I install them and do the testing again.
Thanks a lot.
Eduardo.
PS. I did test the secondary plugs too, the Checker indicates I did have fine spark on both of them. I needed only the part of the tester that generates the light in this case, that because secondary plugs are not in a deep cavity as the primaries.
While waiting for the new sticks to arrive I passed by Harbor Freight and bought for 7 bucks an In line Spark Checker For Recessed Plugs, Item 97577.
It contains three parts, only two needed for the R1150R.
On being the long stick that connects to the plug and the other
being the part that has a bulb that lights revealing whether you have spark or not.
The long stick has some thin fins at the end that connect to the spark plug, just cut them with a scissor so it has the same size and shape as the BMW stick that normally attaches to the plug.
You start by connecting the first part to the plug then its other end to the second part, and finally the coil stick to its other end. Once you have this connected, just start the bike and see if you see a red light in the second part. Being able to see it means you do have a good spark and a good stick and vice-versa.
Using this Checker, I was able to determine very clearly that my left coil stick is BAD, it produced no light in the tester. To verify it was the stick and not the cable that connects to it I swapped the left and right coil sticks and verified that the initial "left coil stick" was not generating spark on the right side either.
I agree that unplugging the coil sticks may be one way of finding out which may be bad, but using this tester you are able to easily try different rpms, and to visually see the amount of light present and that it is proportional to the rpms in the engine. It's easy to use and leaves no doubt.
Cutting away those fins is easy, they are thin and spaced enough for you to do it without mistakes or problems.
Well..., now I know "I DO HAVE a bad coil stick".
Thanks for the suggestions.I'll post what the results are when the spare parts arrive and I install them and do the testing again.
Thanks a lot.
Eduardo.
PS. I did test the secondary plugs too, the Checker indicates I did have fine spark on both of them. I needed only the part of the tester that generates the light in this case, that because secondary plugs are not in a deep cavity as the primaries.
Re: R1150R 2004 spark plugs need frequent change.
This is correct. The Secondaries should be the DCPR6. One heat range hotter on the NGK scale than the Primaries.eduardobelmonte wrote:.............
This iridiums in an effort to see if things got better, but they went worse. I suspect the heat range of the iridium plug is colder than the RA8HC to explain why I did not get a better performance and durability with them.
The big problem is with the secondary plugs. I'm suspecting I should go with a hotter plug specially if a consider using NGK iridiums again ( perhaps a DCPR6EIX. mean the RA8HC which I believe are a little bit hotter didn't come out as black and fouled as the iridiums.......
Eduardo
I tried the 7s, and they worked OK, but NGK recommends the 6 heat range....and the OE Bosch YR6LDE is in the same range.
My mistake was believing my Haynes manual, which says 'NGK DCPR8EKC' for the secondary plug.
I did not like the looks of the Bosch OE -6LDE when I replaced them with Iridiums @~ 4k miles, and I thought I was going 1 range hotter with a NGK DCPR7. They looked OK and I ran with this plug for 30,000mi when for some reason
I decided to check the NGK site and some internet xreference charts.....Lo and behold.....
NGK says a 7-range for the Primaries and a 6-range for the Secondaries....
I just checked during my last tune-up & the DCPR6-EIX looked great after 10kmi, as did the Primaries........
BTW...I've found that in a properly tuned bike I easily get 30k miles from a set of Iridiums..........
j magda
TripleLifer Member 454
04 Black (the Classiest Color) R1150R
Deep in the OH wasteland...
TripleLifer Member 454
04 Black (the Classiest Color) R1150R
Deep in the OH wasteland...
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eduardobelmonte
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Re: R1150R 2004 spark plugs need frequent change.
As I say..., was going to keep you guys informed.
Changed the coil stick I had bad, like two weeks ago
Big difference in behavior now.
On 200 miles two up I made 50mpg compared with 47mpg I used to make before as a maximum (when I didn't have any coils problems, that I knew about.)
The ride has much less vibrations than ever.
It starts easier, doesn't shut up if I don't take care of the throttle during the first 30 seconds.
I still fill some non even rpms when going slow and engine is still not warmed up.
Today I changed the other coil stick, (even though it shows to be generating spark). I want to see if it does make a difference when engine is cold or somewhere else.
The problem, if any, could be that the spark is present but not strong as should be.
So far, using the Twin MAX to measure, no variation have been detected because of this second new coil stick being added.
I'll see how it feels while riding.
Changed the coil stick I had bad, like two weeks ago
Big difference in behavior now.
On 200 miles two up I made 50mpg compared with 47mpg I used to make before as a maximum (when I didn't have any coils problems, that I knew about.)
The ride has much less vibrations than ever.
It starts easier, doesn't shut up if I don't take care of the throttle during the first 30 seconds.
I still fill some non even rpms when going slow and engine is still not warmed up.
Today I changed the other coil stick, (even though it shows to be generating spark). I want to see if it does make a difference when engine is cold or somewhere else.
The problem, if any, could be that the spark is present but not strong as should be.
So far, using the Twin MAX to measure, no variation have been detected because of this second new coil stick being added.
I'll see how it feels while riding.
Re: R1150R 2004 spark plugs need frequent change.
I have been having some similar problems to those that Eduardo describes. This includes hard starting and uneven rpm's at idle. The most concerning problem I've been having though is what I feel is misfiring during hard acceleration.
Just changed my engine, tranny, and fd fluids today thanks to all of your help on this forum. I can't applaud the efforts of you all on here enough!
That said, I'm ready to delve into some more self-service. Do any of you think ignition troubles are part of the symptoms I'm having (the symptoms unfortunately persist after fresh fluids)?
Just changed my engine, tranny, and fd fluids today thanks to all of your help on this forum. I can't applaud the efforts of you all on here enough!
That said, I'm ready to delve into some more self-service. Do any of you think ignition troubles are part of the symptoms I'm having (the symptoms unfortunately persist after fresh fluids)?
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boxermania
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Re: R1150R 2004 spark plugs need frequent change.
djskriff
It has been well documented that stick coils (on 4 plug apps) tend to deteriorate as a result of long term exposure to engine heat. In most cases the deterioration is slow and hardly noticeable by the rider, that is, until it gets progressibly worse and manifests itself as you so describe.
It is best to replace both as they typically have the same run time, and keep the "good" one for a rainy day when you might need it.
It has been well documented that stick coils (on 4 plug apps) tend to deteriorate as a result of long term exposure to engine heat. In most cases the deterioration is slow and hardly noticeable by the rider, that is, until it gets progressibly worse and manifests itself as you so describe.
It is best to replace both as they typically have the same run time, and keep the "good" one for a rainy day when you might need it.
Member #312
06 Suzuki Burgman 650 "state of flux"
79 CBX
06 Suzuki Burgman 650 "state of flux"
79 CBX
Re: R1150R 2004 spark plugs need frequent change.
Went out and got the ignition tester from harbor freight and indeed my left primary stick coil is shot. The test light was not only dim, but also skipped occasionally, which timed itself with the audible hesitation during idle. Priced out 2 replacement coils with my local dealership at about 125 a pop...
Will be worth it to have my power back!
Next step is to put a heavy dose of seafoam in the next tank to clean up the carbon I'm sure has built up. Anyone here recommend replacing the plugs while I'm in there?
Will be worth it to have my power back!
Next step is to put a heavy dose of seafoam in the next tank to clean up the carbon I'm sure has built up. Anyone here recommend replacing the plugs while I'm in there?
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boxermania
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Re: R1150R 2004 spark plugs need frequent change.
If the plugs are fairly recent, say, 5K miles or so, leave them in and run the Seafoam, otherwise make your life easier and replace the plugs while you are at it. Remember that the Seafoam works much better if you get the engine R's into the 5K to 6K range, varying the load.
Good luck........
Good luck........
Member #312
06 Suzuki Burgman 650 "state of flux"
79 CBX
06 Suzuki Burgman 650 "state of flux"
79 CBX
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eduardobelmonte
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Re: R1150R 2004 spark plugs need frequent change.
My friend djskriff,djskriff wrote:I have been having some similar problems to those that Eduardo describes. This includes hard starting and uneven rpm's at idle. The most concerning problem I've been having though is what I feel is misfiring during hard acceleration.
That said, I'm ready to delve into some more self-service. Do any of you think ignition troubles are part of the symptoms I'm having (the symptoms unfortunately persist after fresh fluids)?
Fluids won't affect rpm the way you describe.
Ignition problems do.
I can tell you that after replacing the stick coils I have a clear strong starts every day,
while before changing the sticks I had starts that could had been interpreted as weak or agonizing battery..
That's for you to have an idea of what you can expect.
Eduardo.
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eduardobelmonte
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Re: R1150R 2004 spark plugs need frequent change.
I used to use secondary spark plugs Champion RA8HC, didn't last longer than 2 or 3k miles.jm1515 wrote:This is correct. The Secondaries should be the DCPR6. One heat range hotter on the NGK scale than the Primaries.eduardobelmonte wrote:.............
This iridiums in an effort to see if things got better, but they went worse. I suspect the heat range of the iridium plug is colder than the RA8HC to explain why I did not get a better performance and durability with them.
The big problem is with the secondary plugs. I'm suspecting I should go with a hotter plug specially if a consider using NGK iridiums again ( perhaps a DCPR6EIX. mean the RA8HC which I believe are a little bit hotter didn't come out as black and fouled as the iridiums.......
Eduardo
I tried the 7s, and they worked OK, but NGK recommends the 6 heat range....and the OE Bosch YR6LDE is in the same range.
My mistake was believing my Haynes manual, which says 'NGK DCPR8EKC' for the secondary plug.
I did not like the looks of the Bosch OE -6LDE when I replaced them with Iridiums @~ 4k miles, and I thought I was going 1 range hotter with a NGK DCPR7. They looked OK and I ran with this plug for 30,000mi when for some reason
Lo and behold.....
NGK says a 7-range for the Primaries and a 6-range for the Secondaries....
I just checked during my last tune-up & the DCPR6-EIX looked great after 10kmi, as did the Primaries........
BTW...I've found that in a properly tuned bike I easily get 30k miles from a set of Iridiums..........
Then I tried the Iridiums DCPR7EIX, thinking it would solve the problem, it was worse, seems that heat range is not correct.
Finally I tried NGK DCPR6E.... ! This is lasting longer and works much better than the other two I just mentioned. I'LL STICK WITH THEM.
Thank you jm1515.
Eduardo.
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Dr. Strangelove
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Re: R1150R 2004 spark plugs need frequent change.
I, too, am using the 6s and they last forever, or at least a LONG time. 3923Ps up top.
both show the fine tan color when pulled. I did have the 7s in the past and they usually looked a bit fouled.
I think it is important to gap all plugs correctly and I do with each valve adj/check
looking for a good gapping tool though. the ones that come with the setting blades are too weak and break. A needle nose pliers works ok, but they are not fine enough for slight changes in setting.
both show the fine tan color when pulled. I did have the 7s in the past and they usually looked a bit fouled.
I think it is important to gap all plugs correctly and I do with each valve adj/check
looking for a good gapping tool though. the ones that come with the setting blades are too weak and break. A needle nose pliers works ok, but they are not fine enough for slight changes in setting.
'09 Schwarze Blanche DuBois
Well, don't do that-Hippocrates
Well, don't do that-Hippocrates