GPS Altimeter

[celticus]

Can anyone point me in the direction of a good GPS with a geosat altimeter? Forgive me if I am using the wrong name for this kind of altimeter.
What I mean is a non barometric altimeter. I don't know if these are common or not.
I have been looking on the internet for some information and it occurred to me that this forum was one of my internet information sources AND we might whip up some motorcycle-centric information exchange.

Mark

[gezerbike]

I don't think I can answer your specific question, but the altimiter in my Garmin 2610 appears to be quite accurate, if you consider posted alltitude signs accurate. When I'm down in your neck of the woods, I always have mine on display in the corner of my screen. When I check it against the posted signs on the Cherohala or the Blue Ridge, they are usually within 5 feet of each other. The newer Garmins ( I have a Nuvi 780 as well ) don't have a moving altimiter that you can display and I missed that feature so much that I search for a new 2610 so I could have it. For a time I looked at the watches that have altimiters built in, but they were so hard to read, and cost more than the new 2610 that it was a no brainer.

[Rockosmith]

Every Garmin GPS I have ever owned would show altitude, including the Zumo 550. The only problem with the Zumo is that you cannot choose what data you want to see on any particular screen. All the info is there, just have to get to the right screen to see it.

[Lost Rider]

Garmin GPSMAP 478 is what I use, you can configure the data fields any way you like. It's actually a chartplotter for boats, but is the best adventure GPS on the market in my opinion. (I've had 5 different one's in 4 years in my search)
In addition to altitude it gives my live NEXRAD weather radar, sunrise/set, tides, topo, ability to save tracks and continue tracking in another separate track, trackback routing, and many, many more configuration options than the "consumer" GPS's.
The 478 is a no BS powerful tool, but isn't for the masses.

[celticus]

I don't think I can answer your specific question, but the altimiter in my Garmin 2610 appears to be quite accurate, if you consider posted alltitude signs accurate. When I'm down in your neck of the woods, I always have mine on display in the corner of my screen. When I check it against the posted signs on the Cherohala or the Blue Ridge, they are usually within 5 feet of each other. The newer Garmins ( I have a Nuvi 780 as well ) don't have a moving altimiter that you can display and I missed that feature so much that I search for a new 2610 so I could have it. For a time I looked at the watches that have altimiters built in, but they were so hard to read, and cost more than the new 2610 that it was a no brainer.

The watches I have seen with an altimeter are all barometric. When the weather changes , a front moves in , the barometric pressure changes so the altimeter reading also changes. You need to know the altitude of your location and reset the altimeter once a day from what I have read. I believe the Garmin GPSMAP products have a non barometric altimeter but I am having a hard time finding information on this at the Garmin site.

AHA! I think what I have been looking for is WAAS "Wide Area Augmentation System". I think this is the non barometric altimeter I have been looking for. Joe's GPSMAP 478 is WAAS enabled.


Mark

[mogu83]

I'm sorry (kind of) but I have to ask.
I'm a late hold out to GPS and have to admit that they are a handy back up to a paper map. BUT - I also know three riders that admit they were involved in mishaps while screwing with their GPS units. I know that none of the people on this list would ever do anything with their GPS while the bike is moving, that goes without saying . I however find it a major distraction and sometimes ride with it turned off and fire it up only when I need it. Add an XM radio and an altimeter ( Why ?) and the distraction increases. Maybe I'm old school (and old) but it usually takes all of my ability and attention just to operate the machine correctly.

I'm surprised that their is no mention of the safety aspect of using a GPS or other marginally necessary equipment on the MSF site. Seems to me that the improper use of these items has led to more that a few motorcycle accidents.

[gezerbike]

My 2610 is WAAS enabled. But Joe's 478 is really THE top of the line as far as motorcycles GPS's go. Pretty much cost a ton of cash, but the screen is to die for, especially for those of us who need glasses but are too proud to buy em.

[websterize]

WAAS is a form of GPS signal correction that results in a more precise location fix. Check out http://www8.garmin.com/aboutGPS/waas.html for details. If you have a clear line of sight to the sky, at the beach for example, and are locked in to the one of the WAAS birds, you'll get 1-meter accuracy.

[gezerbike]

If I remember correctly, WAAS units actually triangulate the signal off ground based units as well as satellites, thus giving them better accuracey. My first Garmin, a GPS V, was WAAS enabled and I think all Garmin units going forward from there are.

[deilenberger]

Harry asked:

I'm sorry (kind of) but I have to ask.
I'm surprised that their is no mention of the safety aspect of using a GPS or other marginally necessary equipment on the MSF site. Seems to me that the improper use of these items has led to more that a few motorcycle accidents.

Some snippage took place..

Harry, IMHO, it's a double-edged sword. The important phrase in your question is "improper use." If you allow the GPS to be a distraction, it will be, and will make you less safe riding. I've found it adds to my safety IF used right.

I can remember taking trips where I was glancing down at a tank-bag map to try to determine the next upcoming turn (taking my back route across the top of MD to Square Route Rally for instance..) where the map was the distraction. On that same ride - using my GPS - with a BlueTooth Goober and a set of earphone/earplugs (Etymotic 6i's) - the GPS would tell me what the next turn is well in advance of the turn, allowing me to concentrate visually on what's happening on the road in front of me. Things got even better when GPS's started announcing the next steet name as part of the instructions. You really can get from here to there using a GPS, never looking at it, it's that good. That makes me safer.

Another common problem with a lot of GPS installations is where they're located. Mine is just below my line of sight, mounted as high up on the bike as I can, so there is only minimal eye movement required to see it (and actually I still have a view of what's in front of me while glancing at it.) It's also mounted far enough away from me that I can focus quickly on it without requiring my eyes to refocus for distance when I'm done glancing at it. Having one mounted where BMW mounts them to me was dangerous - not only because I had to actually move my head down to view it, but my eyes had to refocus.

One must resist playing with the thing while riding. I also found the BMW Navigator series to be safer than the same identical GPS directly from Garmin. The reason is the buttons on the left side. The most likely thing I'm going to want to do while in movement with the GPS is zoom in or out of the map. The Navigator has dedicated glove-friendly zoom buttons. Doing the same thing on the identical GPS from Garmin requires using on-screen buttons, which frequently don't do what you expect when used with gloves on. One made for motorcycle use seems inherently safer because the interface is designed to be simple, and useable on a bike.

How you have the GPS programmed also makes a difference. I always used "heads up" - where the GPS orients the map so the direction of travel is up. When using "north up" (the "normal" option) you have to think a bit when glancing at it if the next turn is right/left/whatever. Heads up reduces the amount of attention (and thinking, something that gets slower with age) required to visualize your next turn.

I usually still have a map in my tankbag - usually with my proposed route highlighted on it. It serves as a confirmation that the GPS isn't taking me astray - and I find I can resist looking at it until I'm stopped someplace where it is safe to do so. I also use the map on day rides for a "bigger view" of where I am and where I'm headed - then use the GPS to take me from one point to another. The GPS is good enough now that I often find I've arrived where I was headed and never had to flip the map over to follow the trip (if it was multipage.)

Like I said - double edged sword. Used right it's a safety feature. Used wrong - it IS a hazard. I haven't added XM or BlueTooth phone to my bike just because I think they would be too big a distraction in use. Plus I like listening to the voices in my head, and XM would drown them out. As you suggested - it might be a useful thing for the MSF to do a course in the proper use of devices like a GPS, pointing out how to use them safely, and what to avoid doing.

YMMV..

[celticus]

I'm sorry (kind of) but I have to ask.
I'm a late hold out to GPS and have to admit that they are a handy back up to a paper map. BUT - I also know three riders that admit they were involved in mishaps while screwing with their GPS units. I know that none of the people on this list would ever do anything with their GPS while the bike is moving, that goes without saying . I however find it a major distraction and sometimes ride with it turned off and fire it up only when I need it. Add an XM radio and an altimeter ( Why ?) and the distraction increases. Maybe I'm old school (and old) but it usually takes all of my ability and attention just to operate the machine correctly.

.

I reckon we could take this to the safest extreme and tape over all but the speedometer. But I'll concede that somewhere enough is enough.

Mark

[Dr. Strangelove]

the zumo 550 has an altimeter function that seems to work well

the gps could be a distraction if you let it. Don't let it.

and it augments paper maps, it does not replace them.

John

[waynemathews]

Can anyone point me in the direction of a good GPS with a geosat altimeter? Forgive me if I am using the wrong name for this kind of altimeter.
What I mean is a non barometric altimeter. I don't know if these are common or not.
I have been looking on the internet for some information and it occurred to me that this forum was one of my internet information sources AND we might whip up some motorcycle-centric information exchange.

Mark

Why do you want the altitude? If you are tracking your altitude, Garmin's Edge 205 bicycle computer displays GPS altitude and does not have barometric altitude. You can download track, speed and altitude data to their Training Center software. I don't know if that function set is what you want, but if it is, Garmin's site is https://buy.garmin.com/shop/shop.do?cID=160&pID=6400.

[Lost Rider]

Pretty much cost a ton of cash, but the screen is to die for, especially for those of us who need glasses but are too proud to buy em.

With the new model GPSMAP's released and since they stopped making the 279c, 296, 478 series, there's good deals to be had buying the unit's used or refurb on ebay. I bought mine with all the goodie's and the XM antenna ( $175 value) for about $500.
You can find them for less now.

Since I recently lost my 478 in a crash in Mexico I'll be looking for another on ebay....

[celticus]

Mark

Why do you want the altitude? If you are tracking your altitude, Garmin's Edge 205 bicycle computer displays GPS altitude and does not have barometric altitude. You can download track, speed and altitude data to their Training Center software. I don't know if that function set is what you want, but if it is, Garmin's site is https://buy.garmin.com/shop/shop.do?cID=160&pID=6400.

Following this link it looks like the Edge 205 has a barometric altimeter.

Mark

[gezerbike]

Mark

Why do you want the altitude? If you are tracking your altitude, Garmin's Edge 205 bicycle computer displays GPS altitude and does not have barometric altitude. You can download track, speed and altitude data to their Training Center software. I don't know if that function set is what you want, but if it is, Garmin's site is https://buy.garmin.com/shop/shop.do?cID=160&pID=6400.

Following this link it looks like the Edge 205 has a barometric altimeter.

Mark

Barometric altimeter: no

Are you looking for something to use on the bike ?

[spenserj87]

Since I recently lost my 478 in a crash in Mexico I'll be looking for another on ebay....

Hey, not to hijack this thread, but us inquiring minds still want the dirty details on the mex crash :_)

[waynemathews]

Mark

Why do you want the altitude? If you are tracking your altitude, Garmin's Edge 205 bicycle computer displays GPS altitude and does not have barometric altitude. You can download track, speed and altitude data to their Training Center software. I don't know if that function set is what you want, but if it is, Garmin's site is https://buy.garmin.com/shop/shop.do?cID=160&pID=6400.

Following this link it looks like the Edge 205 has a barometric altimeter.

Mark

If you click the Specs tab and scroll down you'll see that the 205 does not have barometric altitude. Starting with the next model up, the Edge 305, the bicycle GPSs have barometric altitude which Garmin says gives a more precise vertical profile. I have a 305 on my bicycle, and there is no provision for setting altitude. I surmise that the 305 uses GPS to establish altitude, and then uses the barometer to track changes.

[celticus]

Why do you want the altitude? [/quote]
Following this link it looks like the Edge 205 has a barometric altimeter.


Barometric altimeter: no That is correct , Forgive me. It has no altimeter.

Are you looking for something to use on the bike ?[/quote]

I used to have a GPSMAP 276C which I did not like. I Was constantly having to pull over to mess with it. It did not even come pre loaded with maps. Between Map software from Garmin and 512 of memory it cost me an additional $250 and then it did not work a tenth of the time.

The one thing I DID like about it was the altimeter. When riding in the mountians I like to watch how the changes in evevation effect the temperature.It sounds silly when put like that but YES I want the altimeter for my motorcycle.

Mark

[mogu83]

Why do you want the altitude?
When riding in the mountians I like to watch how the changes in evevation effect the temperature.It sounds silly when put like that but YES I want the altimeter for my motorcycle.
Mark

AHH - So it finally comes out
It doesn't sound so silly to me - BUT I'm a guy that carries a little doll around and takes pictures of it.
My traveling buddy this year is a Smurf, so far he's been to Bike Week and the Kennedy Space Center, and the season hasn't started yet.