HID problem

[hoflix]

I just ran into my very first problem with the r12r. No biggie, but still...


I was cruising PCH and pulled over to take some pics. When I re-started the bike, the computer was displaying a "LAMP" error.
Circled the bike 3 times, then realized my HID high beam was off.

When I try to turn it on, it just blinks a few times, then stays off. Weird thing is sometimes it stays on for 30 secs of so, during which time the "lamp" warning goes off.

Doesn't seem to matter if the engine is running or not. What's the life expectancy of HID lights? Mine is only 9 months old.

Any suggestions where to start looking?
is the bulb itself going bad? the ballast? starter? relay?


I've searched the forum, but all HID discussions are about what to get and how to install, not about problems.

[zei220]

I had a similar problem which turned out to be a loose connection between the bulb and the ballast.

Hope that helps.

[hoflix]

it did help, thanks a lot!

thought i check those connections first.. and indeed, i found it.

between the ballast and the bulb.

it's not actually a loose connection.. it's an... elastic wire! one wire is stretchy, like rubber. it developed a ... "lapse" and the current is actually arching inside the insulation !! I could see the wire itself blinking in the dark... with the insulation being intact.

very weird...

I'm trying to see what the procedure with the warranty is.

[ka5ysy]

It sounds like you have a separate lamp assembly and ballasts, so you are working with high voltage wire circuits. If you are into trying to fix the wire try cutting it where you saw the arcing internally. Strip the insulation and find clean copper (not burned brown from the arc) and cut to there on both sides. Put some heat shrink tube onto the wire so that you can slide it up and over the joint after the next steps are completed. Solder the connection back carefully, then using some liquid electrical tape, start building up some layers of insulation over the connection. After a number of coats, wrap the whole thing with good grade electrical tape, but not too thick to prevent sliding the shrink tubing over the completed joint area. Use a heat gun (pain remover works as well as a true heat shrink gun at way less cost!) or hair dryer. I usually complete the repair with another coat of liquid electrical tape to waterproof the ends of the shrink tube.

I have completed a lot of high voltage cable repairs doing this kind of patch when I did not have access to some more actual HV wire.

Plan B is that you can actually replace the offending wire with some high voltage probe wire available at most electronic supply houses.

Plan C is use spark plug wire (solid, not the resistance wire)!

[hoflix]

whoops... I just realized it's high voltage wire after reading your post.

I was wondering why the wire looked so weird... thin and super-flexible

Notice the black dot on the red wire. Might be a difficult fix, since it's so close to the plug. I can't figure out how to take the plug out and re-use it.



I have warranty on the HID kit though... shouldn't that be covered?

[deilenberger]

It should certainly be covered. I'd be on the phone to the vendor..

[ka5ysy]

Yep.. I agree with Don.. this is warranty stuff. The position of the break is too close to the connector to fool with. Only way I would do it would be as a quick field repair until I got a replacement .

It also explains why the CANBUS was getting upset. The break is causing the ballast to think that the bulb has not fired and is causing it to continually fire the start voltage which is higher than the run voltage. This is likely causing high current spikes to the 12VDC circuit you are tied into and causing the computer to shut down the circuit.

[hoflix]

Well after 2 weeks, the problem is still developing...

The HID vendor denied the warranty claim, saying "it's not transferable". (I bought the bike from Doug --aka "almost_there here on the forum-- so I'm not the original buyer). I think that's just BS. There's no mention of anything like that under their warranty policy on the website. ( Future Vision HID dot com). I don't see any reasons why the warranty wouldn't transfer, as long as I can prove it's their product, and it was installed professionally. Anyways, they fed me some story about their stuff being top quality, 1:20k rate of defects, bla bla bla, and offered to sell me another one, for a discounted price.

So today I fixed it myself: took the plug apart, cut the wire shorter, and soldered it. Tested, the HID works again!

When I was everything back together though, I noticed there was water seeping from the ballast (!!!) I did washed the bike a few days ago... but the ballast plastic capsule was supposed to be waterproof. I saw no way to open up the capsule, so I tried to get all the water out of it, and dried it.

Then I went for a ride, HID working nice and bright like before. But I hit a rather big pothole, and it went off again. It's just dead, no blinking no nothing.
My soldering is still still in one piece.

I can only think of 2 things the could have went wrong:

1) the bulb filament broke because of the shock.. but of course, being HID, it doesn't have a filament. Could something else in the bulb brake down? I took the headlight apart, but I can't tell. And i don't know how to check it.

2) maybe some of the remaining water (?) in the ballast shorted something. Is there a was to test a ballast? what's the output voltage? is it AC or DC? Or should I crack the plastic open and check the components? what's inside?


I am one step away from getting rid of the whole HID thingee.... Seems to expensive to maintain. A busted ballast is like $50, a bulb is a whole hundred !! (or was i looking at the wrong part?)


what's a good old "normal" bulb to use?


maybe too many questions, I know.... for a trivial light bulb

[deilenberger]

Well after 2 weeks, the problem is still developing...

The HID vendor denied the warranty claim, saying "it's not transferable". (I bought the bike from Doug --aka "almost_there here on the forum-- so I'm not the original buyer). I think that's just BS. There's no mention of anything like that under their warranty policy on the website. ( Future Vision HID dot com). I don't see any reasons why the warranty wouldn't transfer, as long as I can prove it's their product, and it was installed professionally. Anyways, they fed me some story about their stuff being top quality, 1:20k rate of defects, bla bla bla, and offered to sell me another one, for a discounted price.

Sign of a quality vendor.. never overlooks an opportunity to increase sales and screw a customer. Unfortunately - a lot of HID vendors are fly-by-night sorts and work the same way.

So today I fixed it myself: took the plug apart, cut the wire shorter, and soldered it. Tested, the HID works again!

When I was everything back together though, I noticed there was water seeping from the ballast (!!!) I did washed the bike a few days ago... but the ballast plastic capsule was supposed to be waterproof. I saw no way to open up the capsule, so I tried to get all the water out of it, and dried it.

Water from the ballast is bad. Is there a seperate ignitor lump in the high-voltage line, or just a ballast with a connector to the bulb?

Then I went for a ride, HID working nice and bright like before. But I hit a rather big pothole, and it went off again. It's just dead, no blinking no nothing.
My soldering is still still in one piece.

I can only think of 2 things the could have went wrong:

1) the bulb filament broke because of the shock.. but of course, being HID, it doesn't have a filament. Could something else in the bulb brake down? I took the headlight apart, but I can't tell. And i don't know how to check it.

It's an arc-gap, with some xenon gas inside. If the glass is intact it should at least try to fire off.

2) maybe some of the remaining water (?) in the ballast shorted something. Is there a was to test a ballast? what's the output voltage? is it AC or DC? Or should I crack the plastic open and check the components? what's inside?

All bad ideas. There is a starting pulse of several thousand volts that starts the arc-discharge. Then the system puts out a running voltage of (from memory) about 50V to continue the discharge. Tricky to measure several thousand volts and a bit dangerous.

I am one step away from getting rid of the whole HID thingee.... Seems to expensive to maintain. A busted ballast is like $50, a bulb is a whole hundred !! (or was i looking at the wrong part?)

That's why the good ones (euro/Bosch made) are pricey. And those are the sort of prices seen for Chinese made stuff.

what's a good old "normal" bulb to use?

http://www.powerbulbs.com - look for one of the +50% H11 bulbs. Osram or Philips are good names.

maybe too many questions, I know.... for a trivial light bulb

I actually prefer auxiliary lights..

[hoflix]

Thanks for the reply. I decided to get rid of it, at least for now, till I figure out exactly what's going on.
Got a standard bulb Sylvania/Osram silverstar 4000k. $22.

Water from the ballast is bad. Is there a separate ignitor lump in the high-voltage line, or just a ballast with a connector to the bulb?

yes, there's a separate box, close to the headlight side... that's the box with the water. So there's no way of actually testing it...

I actually prefer auxiliary lights..

i got those too.

[hoflix]

not that it matters or anyone cares

but it wasn't the water.

took the whole HID thing off the bike today and opened up the ballast and the ignition. They are actually pretty well made, and all the components are completely sealed in what seems to be silicone (like the gasket maker) or some rubbery soft polyurethane.

Water did infiltrate the plastic box, but there no way to short anything in there.

[celticus]

Of course we care. Did you ever figure out the problem?

Mark