ABS info

[VerneB]

I’m looking at buying another BMW after being away from bikes for about 15 years. An R1150R would suit me just fine – in fact, I’m excited about the prospect – and an internet search brought me to this forum.

I’ve waded through a mountain of posts, and very much appreciate the depth of experience and expertise reflected on the board. I’ve learned a lot about the 1150R.

But... I’ve waded through dozens of posts dealing with ABS discussions and I’m looking for a bit more clarity:

 In the event of an ABS failure, just what exactly fails? Is there a loss of ABS capability only, and braking capability remains? Or is there a loss of both ABS and servo braking capability, but manual braking capability remains? Or are we talking about a complete loss of brakes?
 Is there warning? Can potential ABS failure be predicted on the basis of mileage or maintenance indications? Do the warning lights give the rider an opportunity to get stopped before failure happens?
 What’s the failure rate? I understand from reading through a number of forum posts that no one has a hard and fast answer to that question and that BMW is pretty quiet on the numbers, but I’d very much appreciate a sense of order of magnitude: are we talking failure in one in ten bikes; one in a hundred; one in a thousand? Does failure correlate with age or mileage?

Please understand that it’s not my intent to fuel any sort of confrontational discussion. What I’m hoping for is a sense of whether I should be looking for an ABS or non-ABS bike. I’m a high mileage rider with nine bikes behind me. The safety potentially offered by ABS is compelling, but that advantage would pretty quickly fall to the wayside were there any significant and accompanying likelihood of full brake system failure.

I’d appreciate any observations you might have to offer.

Thanks,

VerneB

[towerworker]

I have an 04 with ABS. It has 35K with no (knock on wood) failures. Bike had 17k when I bought it in late 07. My previous R was an 03 non abs. This is my first bike with ABS. I like the sense of possible safety the ABS gives but I have not yet had to use it. It's my understanding that even in the even of an ABS failure of any kind that you will still have braking power although with more braking effort required. My brakes will work with the bike shut off but it requires much more brake pressure since my ABS system gives a "power assist" so therefore less pressure is required on both the front and rear brake levers and pedal.
That is the extent of my experience and knowledge concerning ABS on our bikes. To be quite honest---if I had a major failure that would require replacing the ABS servo unit (located under the tank) I would look into pulling all the ABS components and go to conventional braking. There have been posts on this board of folks doing just that with good success it seems. I'm told replacing ABS parts can be quite costly.

I know this does not answer many of your questions but hopefully someone else will add to this.

Good Luck!

Wayne

[iowabeakster]

No matter how bad the ABS system fails, you will always have some braking. It is the equivalent of the brakes you have when the bike is turned off. This is what is called "residual braking". It will get you stopped, but it is not preferable.

The warning lights will inform the rider of a number of different faults (indicated by two different lights and variable flashing patterns). Some of the faults will not result in loss of ABS or power braking (like low fluid warning). Others will result in loss of power brakes and ABS to just one wheel. Still others will result in total loss of the ABS sysem, resulting in "residual braking".

Is there warning? Not really, the problems generally are electrical...on one ride they work fine...the next you have blinking lights.

The parts that would be likely to fail are: microswitches, wheel sensors, wiring, Big ABS wiring harness, and ABS unit itself.

The first parts are not too costly...the last two (the ABS unit, and the big ABS wiring harness) are extremely costly.

I have no info about the frequency of failures...mine has worked perfectly too.

The other issue is the cost of ABS maintenance. If you take it to the dealer for the annual fluid flush, the cost will be substantial. Doing it yourself is not particularly hard...but it is tedious and time consuming. This procedure scares the heck out of some folks. Although, many, like myself, have done it without any problems. I don't know your budget or your confidence for working on the bike. I will be doing it for the 4th time (maybe the 5th... I did it once when the bike was only a couple moths old... just to learn) in the next week. I plan on taking pictures and writing up a "Cheapskate's How-to Guide", specific for the R1150R.

[iowabeakster]

rant on...

I spent this afternoon doing my ABS service. I take back everything good I ever said about this ABS system.

This system was designed by Hitler's retarded children that he sired with a baboon from the Berlin Zoo.

Like I said, it is time consuming and tedious. Plus, I spent too much time futzing with the camera documenting all the stuff that needs to be removed or whatever. Time just kept passing me by and I needed to wrap it up so I could get to work. So, I ended up rushing the last part...and sucked air into the the rear control circuit....sllluuurrrrpppp. I thought I got it all out, but a test ride said differently. This is not the fault of Hitler's retarded baboon children...this was clearly my own brain fart. The fact I need to diassemble the bike again to get the air out...that is the fault of the baboon retards.

rant off...

[VerneB]

Thanks for the responses. In an odd sort of a way, your comments are actually kind of reassuring.

I've decided that ABS will not be a dealbreaker either way. I'm not going to go out of my way to find an ABS bike, but nor will I walk away from a good one at a good price because it has ABS.

Once again, thanks for the input.

VerneB

[MikeCam]

Compared to the incidents of final drive failure reporting and clutch hub/input shaft failure reporting the ABS unit failures reported are miniscule. Actual failure rates appear to be 3-5% for final drives; around 1% for clutch hubs and input shafts; well under 1% for ABS units. For perspective, BMW imported and sold approximately 40,000 Oilhead 1150 series bikes between 1999-2006. The early years still featured ABS II systems on some models. ABS/servo assist as found on the 1150R first appeared in late 2001 for the 2002 model year (US figures).

Iowa described the failure mode well. Low battery state of charge is apparently the number one culprit in ABS system function failure. No idea what causes system unit/module failures. The best "test" is to permit the dealer's service department to use their expensive pressure bleed system to check the system as described in the owner's manual (annual/bi-annual/quad-annual depending on year).

[sweatmark]

My favorite local BMW dealer has commented that Integrated ABS module failures have been commonplace... enough so that an iABS module (and its $2500 price tag) are featured on the "Popular Upgrades and Maintenance Items" type display located near the Service Advisor's workstation. I often joke that they should also feature the clutch & transmission input shaft in the display.

[toolinalong]

I have a friend in Nashville who purchased a 2002 R1150RT 2 years ago. It had 60000 miles on it. The service records concerning the ABS brakes were not good, it was hard to tell for sure but it looked like the guy had only changed the brake fluid once at 42000 miles, but my friend bought it anyways cause he and his wife both liked the red color and it was in Nashville (they had looked at others in other states). On the first trip we took together which was about 3000 miles to the north shore of Lake Superior and then down to Niagara Falls, just as we turned south to head home his ABS light went on (the left hand one). He ended up having to replace the unit at a cost of $2000.

Nashville is a humid climate, as is Oregon. If it were me, I would change the brake fluid yearly in those kinds of climates like the book says.

I had a total failure of the system last year, when a local wrench screwed up something on the brake fluid change service. I lost all braking about a mile from home after riding 20 miles thru the city and then up the canyon from the garage. The Denver dealer was able to fix it, but it was a scary few minutes to have absolutely no brakes at all....

[bikermeow]

I have a question ....

Non-ABS models have no servos. But is there any model with ABS but no servos?

[riceburner]

I have a question ....

Non-ABS models have no servos. But is there any model with ABS but no servos?

the newer R1200 bikes have (IIRC) ABS without servos. but no R1150 bikes (afaik).