Seal Failure on Final Drive

[Twempie]

I would like to tap into the collective wisdom of the forum. I noticed greasy oil deposits under the shaft housing today (hence the fingerprints in the the photo). I'm not sure if I'm looking at a leaking seal or a FD failure. If this is a seal that's failed, is this a project a self-taught wrench could fix, or should I take it to the shop?
Two photos are here:
http://fridgefoto.biz/2003_R1150R_Final ... rge-1.html

Thanks.

[iowabeakster]

It kind of depends on what you mean by "failure". If the wheel turns without a grinding noise, the gears and bearings (the "failure" parts) are probably in good shape. There are a couple places that it could be leaking from. It could be either from the final drive unit, or it could be from the gear box and has dribbled down the shaft housing to that location.

You may want to pull back the boot, and take a look. Cyclerob has stated that you can pull the boot back and get it back on without cutting the ziptie. I have never done it, so I can't give any tips about doing it. But, you could always replace the zip tie. You should be able to determine if it is coming from the input seal of the FD or the output seal of the gear box. Check to see if the level of oil in the offending unit has dropped. It may be a good idea the change the oil and inspect for any metal shavings. If it has not dropped and the oil is free of debris, clean everything up as best you can, and wait and see. You can then keep a watchful eye on it for a period of time, and determine if action needs to be taken. Many people have taken the "wait and see" approach, and the leak stopped stopped on its own. Sometimes the leak was so insignificant that it was easiest to just clean up it occasionally.

[Hottech]

I had a similar situation and the dealer said it was the pivot pin O ring. They said it was a common problem that was noticed even on new bikes off the assembly line. It was a $300 fix through the dealership probably a $3.00 fix if you did it yourself.

[Sunbeemer]

I've had this type of stain on mine in the past, and the leak stopped on its own after I changed the final drive lube (which may or may not have had anything to do with it stopping!) Anyway, I'd go with Iowabeakster's advice...

[Twempie]

My biggest concern is that the sludgy stain has appeared rather quickly. I changed all the fluids about three weeks ago (using synthetic in the FD and tranny - which shouldn't matter, right ).

Thanks for the feedback, I'll wipe it down, check the oil level, keep an eye on it, and post any findings.

[riceburner]

I'd wager half of that is road crud tbh...

A minor weep from the boot is nothing to worry about.
Both seals that could be leaking are above their respective oil baths so you'll never lose more than a splash of oil.

I wouldn't worry about it.

[Sunbeemer]

(using synthetic in the FD and tranny - which shouldn't matter, right ).

Actually, there is some question about this....Some claim that sytnhetics will leak past seals, and I myself have had this happen using a synth-blend motor oil in my bike. I use only non-synth Castrol products now, which is how I "cured" my FD weeping.

[R1150Rclean]

(using synthetic in the FD and tranny - which shouldn't matter, right ).

Actually, there is some question about this....Some claim that sytnhetics will leak past seals, and I myself have had this happen using a synth-blend motor oil in my bike. I use only non-synth Castrol products now, which is how I "cured" my FD weeping.

What engine oil were you using? I am running Castrol 15-50 synthetic in the engine, no problems so far but I do not know what I should be looking for either. Does it leak through seals and drip on the ground (i.e., outside the engine) or does it leak into other compartments of the engine (i.e., transmission)?

[iowabeakster]

R1150Rclean,

The leak(s) that are being talked about in this thread are not from the engine. FD stands for Final Drive. That is the drive unit on the rear wheel. The other possibility is from the tranny. There has been some debate whether synthetic oils are more likely to seep past the seals in those two units. Whether that debate has any merit or not, I can't say.

I know that many folks are using the same engine oil as you, and I've yet to hear of anybody having an engine oil leak. I've been reading this site almost daily for almost 5 years. I take that back...people do have leaks occasionally from the the oil filler cap, or from poorly installed valve cover gaskets. Both of those problems are easily fixed and have nothing to do with the type of oil they use.

[fallingpines]

I had a similar leak at the boot when using synthetic in my final drive, since I have changed to conventional and the leak no longer shows it's ugly head. It can't hurt to swap out and see if it helps your situation.

[towerworker]

Dino vs synthetic.............that will sure start some discussions!

I personally don't run synthetic in the gearbox nor the FD only because I had a leak in a gearbox shortly after switching to synthetic. This was several years ago on an '03. Maybe it was something else but I considered it a heck of a coincidence.

Wayne

[Twempie]

Problem solved. It was a pinion seal.

FWIW: Over the years, I've tried synthetic and dino in the FD and tranny without problems. I guess it was just time for the seal to go. Well, it's fixed now and, long story short, because of what was at hand, I now have synthetic in the tranny and dino in the FD. No weeping.

I posted this thread on the MOA site, and combined with comments here, I've discovered that a lot of people just live with a weeping FD because it seems the seal will eventually start weeping again. Personally, I prefer to make an effort to get these types of things fixed. If you've ever been in the middle of nowhere in the American West ("Sheet, I diint know BMW made bikes"), the less you have to worry about the better.

Thanks for all the input and feedback, this is a great forum.

[R1150Rclean]

I have been running a 80-90W semi-synthetic gear oil made by Valvoline (at Autozone) in the FD and transmission with no leaks after ~200 miles. Smooth shifting too, but it was that way with the old stuff in it too (BMW oil that came with the bike).

[jas]

[quote="R1150Rclean"]I have been running a 80-90W semi-synthetic gear oil made by Valvoline (at Autozone) in the FD and transmission with no leaks after ~200 miles. quote]

For the last 20,000 miles I have changed my FD and Trans fluid with every oil change using Valvoline (Napa) 80w-90 with no leaks as well.

[duckdave]

See my posts about FD leaking problems and solutions (so far):
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=15105&start=0

Best luck to you. I've stopped worrying, but it cost a bit to fix.

[bucky katt]

a few years ago (2005/06 i actually worked as a tech at a dealer in new england and i probably replaced on average 4 or 5 drive seals a month, all using the factory tools and holding fixture. how bad of a job is it doing it with your regular shop tools? i am looking at buying my first beemer, the 1150r or the rockster. my every day ride right now is a 74 honda cb750k and i have a suzuki titan i'm getting ready to restore as well, but i want something i can do a 1000 mile day on comfortably.

[CycleRob]

I put 75W-90 Mobil-1 in at the 600 mile service and ran the same brand/type oil past 63,000 miles with no leaks ever. The FD never got hot to the touch, like other bikes in the riding group and the wheel hand turned real easy! Both original seals are still on the bike, even after taking it apart to replace both worn/loose wheel shaft bearings at 62K miles. The big main seal sealing edge just looked smooth/perfect and was still very flexible. It's so easy to replace, with no more than a wheel removal needed, so I didn't do it.

Because so many others have experienced failed FD bearings, I don't blame the oil for the bearings failing, only BMW.

.

[bucky katt]

i understand that when changing from dino to synthetic, the deposits that are in the motor left by the dino oil are blasted away by the detergent action of the synthetic oil. if you've done more than 30 or 40k on a motor with dino oil in it, i wouldnt change over to synthetic is what we told people that came into the shop.

[challey]

For what it's worth, the proprietor of a well-regarded BMW shop in my area recommends the exclusive use of Castrol Hypoy C in the FD. He swears that he's never had a bike in his shop with a premature FD failure who's owner used Hypoy C gear lube. There may be an element of superstition here but this is a guy who's seen a lot of bikes over the years.

Another point of reference: At a tech session at the VT rally a couple of years ago, Paul Glaves stated that while he believed synthetic was appropriate for the trans, where there was substantial heat from both friction and the engine/exhaust for the gears and bearings to cope with, he recommended dino oil for the FD. His reasoning was that the FD did not get particulary hot and so did not really benefit from synthetic. He also believed that the higher viscosity of the dino was better when starting from cold - that is, when cold, it "stuck" to the surfaces better than synthetic and provided more protection at that first loading.

Not endorsing any particular view, just passing along the info. I did however switch to Hypoy C since I figured it couldn't hurt.

Charlie