Hexhead Model Comparo's GS vs R; ST vs RT; etc

[MikeCam]

Has anybody got some saddle time on different models of the Hexheads? Enough to share some ride, handling, performance discussions?

I wonder (following the discussion in the Regional Differences thread) if maybe the Hexheads are so close in both price and performance that the GS and RT will be the sales leaders while the R and (already dc'd) ST are the loss leaders. Or something.

I'd like to hear about suspension, braking, acceleration, lean, cruising, luggage loading, wx protection, etc. Thx

Joe, Don, Jim???

[deilenberger]

Mike,

I actually don't. I gave thought to an ST before I bought the R - but couldn't get my head around the looks (personal thing..) and after sitting one - the seating position was more extreme than the RS I had at the time, which was causing me problems (butt and palm problems - aka, too much tummy..) The fact that the only ones available new (leftover '06's) either didn't have ABS, or had ABS and whizzy brakes also turned me off. I wanted exactly the brakes the 2007 hexheads came with.

GS's were just too tall, and too Hummer like for me (poser bike for the vast majority of owners where a gravel parking lot is as far off-road as they will ever get..)

Plus I loved the looks of the R (still do), loved the riding position (still do), loved the brakes (still do), loved the bike (still do).. so I bought it. I haven't regretted it a second.

[MikeCam]

Don,

Thanks. You and Joe are probably the best endorsement of the R that exists. You've expanded everyones' knowledge while Joe has ridden every potential GS road and trail and shown it can be done readily (well can be done). I keep thinking of Jeff Massey's decision to stock over 20 GS's and only 1 R - his experience tells him something.

[mogu83]

I don't think the R will ever match (or come close) to the RT or GS in sales, which as far as I'm concerned is a good thing. The GS is marketed as the premier adventure bike, usually pictured with a handsome athletic young guy riding to exotic places. The RT is usually pictured with a happy couple riding across the wide expanse of the American highway system. This is how many people interested in buying a motorcycle see themselves and and dealer that keeps a good supply of these models on the floor will do OK.
The R on the other hand is presented as a nice bike to ride to work in the city. Some people, many with a lot of miles and bikes under their belts, saw the R as basically a standard that with little effort could be modified into whatever they wanted. Much like the bikes in the late 70's and early 80's. These bikes can be modified, with little effort, to a off road adventure tourer a long distance tour bike or you can ride it to your job in the city. Many riders after a lot or miles and years develop a set of parameters that a bike must fit into for their style of riding, most purpose built bikes don't fit all of them while the R can be easily be modified to fit into them.
I imagine most R owners will be riding them for a while, after the bike is modified for their needs. The others-- well after some figure out that a GS doesn't turn you into a handsome young adventurer and a RT won't transform your SO (that doesn't like Motorcycles) into a long distance motorcycle tourer that will spend hours happily and quietly riding behind 'her man', they will move on to something else.

Almost forgot: IMHO

[tobes]

I can only offer comparison to the ST. Every time I take my R in for service I end up on my dealer’s ST loaner. The ST pitches you forward and puts weight on the wrists. As Don said the whizzy brakes are a turn-off. The service manager warned me before I got on the ST for the first time that engaging the brakes on it is like having the hand of God coming down to stop you. Personally I prefer the brakes on the R. I’m not sure what the weight/power differences are between the two but it feels like my R would run circles around the ST – much more pull on the R. In the twisties the ST feels heavy - the R is more flickable. Tough comparison though because I don’t ride with hard bags and the loaner always has system bags attached. In the end, in my opinion, the R is more comfortable, better looking, and as other stated more versatile.
Mike

[Dan-A]

I rode a 2004 R1150GS over the summer.

Very stable bike to ride, excellent visibility, comfortable, good handling in the corners. Not particularly quick, but adequate to the task. The bike was a mule, took the wife camping at the Beemer Bash in Quincy CA. I defy anyone to put as much crap in a Gold Wing as you can carry on a GS. I had stuff strapped in and on the bike everywhere. Excellent long distance tourer for one or two up. A great bike. I wouldn't want to ride it much in the dirt though.

Sold it at the end of summer and bought the F800GS.

I test road a R1200GS and R1200GSA before buying the F800GS. The 09 model is lighter, has plenty of horsepower (105 i think) and torque, can carry everything including the kitchen sink, has more leg room than the R, and handles almost as good. Ditto for the GSA except for the heavier weight (still a little lighter than my 04 1150GS) and that fantastic 9 gallon tank, wow! talk about cruising range.

The 1200GS bikes are not posers, they are as close to an all around bike as you can get. Anyone who is only going to own only one motorcycle and thinks there are dirt roads in their future should at least test ride a GS.

The F800GS is a different animal altogether, more like a KLR on steroids than a boxer GS. Have had it in the dirt already and it is a sweet ride. I intend to travel on it which will include many back roads, dirt, gravel, etc. I think my KLR will be leaving the stable as the F800GS though a bit heavier does pretty much anything the KLR does, but better.

Strangely, there are several F800GS buyers that also have R1200R's on the 800 forum, and I think we are all keeping both.

The R1200R is a great bike and I love mine. Unmatched for lightness, handling, comfort, torque and looks. For the fun factor, it is the best bike in BMW's line up. (UPDATE: Maybe I should qualify that, the F800GS is a lot of fun!)

(IMHO)

[mogu83]

[quote="deilenberger"](poser bike for the vast majority of owners where a gravel parking lot is as far off-road as they will ever get..)[quote]

I also thought 'poser' was a little harsh and very unlike Don's normal choice of words. He must have been having a bad day.

I ride a cruiser type bike occasionally with a bunch of guys that many people (Euro riders) might be tempted to use the term 'poser'. The cruiser guys most likely spend as much time polishing their machines as they do riding them, many have never been out of the state on two wheels and few have been over a hundred on their bike. With them, as with some Beemer riders, style is everything and they don't understand why anyone would buy an ugly R1200R, I explained it's not a piece of art it's a machine. They promptly named it Mr. Machine, which I had lettered right on the Telelever trailing arm.
I long ago figured out it doesn't matter what you ride, or how far you ride, only if you ride.

Now the term - AXXhole that has some real meaning, we have some of them on all brands and models (none on this list though)

[MikeCam]

I find the R to be very arty. Angular, stark, perfectly finished with understatement and brooding power.



Copy from BMW advertising. Private use only. No commercial display permitted.


Sadly, in a moment of bad weakness, I bought this the other day...

[RonR]

I have maybe the best direct comparison between an RT and an R. I owned a 2005 RT for a couple of years:

The above photo was taken on an LA - Portland - LA trip in March 2007. I sold this bike in September 2007, then in January 2008 bought my R:

This photo was taken in September of this year on an identical trip.

On the RT: For touring it was perfect. In particular, wind protection with the full fairing and adjustable wind screen was excellent, even in 30 degree temperatures I encountered in Oregon; the flexibility of ESA is maybe what I miss most on the R...the Comfort setting was perfect for eliminating the LA freeway washboard effect and the Normal setting just right for everything else (for someone of 165 lbs. like me); the electronic cruise control was spot-on (why can't we get this on the R?); and, of course, the hard panniers with liners were great. I also added the BMW RT tank bag and a Cortech expandable tail pack that nicely accomodated my 17" MacBook Pro.

So, why did I sell it? Three primary reasons: Around town and in the hills it was just too much...too much weight, too much plastic, too much size. The second reason is related to the first. That extra 100 or so pounds means the RT has to work hard to do the things that come easily to the R, acceleration, breaking, corners, etc. Whenever I took the RT in for service I would get an R loaner that dramatically demonstrated the contrast. Third, aesthetics. I originally bought it for its functionality but could never completely warm up to the fairing design. I have always preferred motorcycles you can see through. So, I put it on Cycle Trader and within a week a buyer flew in from Phoenix to ride it away.

On the R: From the photo above you can see that I have moved from the naked bike philosophy somewhat towards the RT by adding a Parabellum Scout fairing. I have three screens: 10" tinted, 18" tinted (in the photo), and 20" clear which is on the bike now and has become my favorite for cooler weather. Good protection, minimal buffeting or noise. Other than a few other minor modifications, won't go into details here, it's stock. For touring, I went with the Cortech Series panniers which match up with the tail pack and a Series tank bag. Slightly less capacity than the RT, but also less mass and, IMHO, more in character with the R design.

You all know what's good about the R, and for the most part I agree. One area where the RT excels, however, is vibration, or lack thereof. I have been living with it on the R and tried several things to cure it (again, I won't go into details here), but there remains a small but noticeable buzz in the bars and footpegs at certain RPM ranges that never occurred on the RT. If I could conquer that on the R, it would be just about perfect for me. Well, almost. A suspension upgrade is going to have to happen at some point. The stock shocks are actually quite good in the mountains and around town, but I am tired of the beating I take on the freeways.

Finally, one area that the RT and the R are comparable: the seats suck. 150 miles and I want off. And they both slide me towards the tank, which might be understandable on a naked bike, but on an RT? I have a ride-in appointment with Bill Meyer in Ojai in January for a seat rebuild.

Ron

[ka5ysy]

... I keep thinking of Jeff Massey's decision to stock over 20 GS's and only 1 R - his experience tells him something.

Actually this means that we RR owners are the creme de la creme of BMW owners....

Quality over Quantity, and very, very discerning tastes in motorcycles -- one in twenty !

[Dan-A]

Sadly, in a moment of bad weakness, I bought this the other day...

Dude, you have my sympathy. Obviously more money than good sense at that particular moment.

A & S BMW where I have been known to hang out for coffee on Saturdays has just become a Ducati dealer and the bikes are starting to roll in.

This is not good.....

What a beauty!

[motoracer8]

I have a friend that bought a 05 RT shortly after they came out, and I always thought he was happy with it, because he did some serious touring with it. I rode it some, it was ok, but I did not like all the plastic.
For the last 2 years I've been riding a Ducati Multistrada, my friend has riden the Ducati and says it's just alittle too hard edged for him but fun to ride. This summer I bought a new R12R, and of course my friend wanted to ride it, that was it, the RT was sold and he put a deposit down on a new 09 R12R. I have seen him go through several motorcycles over the years, but that was a quick decision. I rode a GS for a few miles before I bought the R12R, Tall, and top heavy and a truck compared to the Ducati, plus I did'nt have any desire to take a 500 lb. machine off road, and they don't have much garage apeal for me. My two cents.

Ken G.

[Bheckel169]

For all the reasons Ron R stated I went from an 06 RT to the 08 R. What a difference and for some reason I found the shifting to be like butter, unlike the RT. Bottom line, the RT was top heavy and though a wonderful bike you could instantly feel the difference in balance, power and flickability. I love my bike.
PS Oh and those brakes are a dream.
Bruce

[socalrob]

I owned an R1150R and have test ridden an R1200R a couple of times, but ended up with this:


I find the GSA to be a great commuter, touring bike and canyon bike. The extra suspension smooths out freeways. While the bike is heavy (its the same weight as the old R1150R), the weight definitely disappears as soon as you are under way.

I've also ridden an R1200ST several hundred miles as a loaner. Very nice bike. I'm sad they quit making them.

My next bike may well be a R1200S. After riding the ST I'd really like to go more sport oriented as the ST was such a fun bike to ride the traffic of LA's freeways.


Two up camping with my son:

Same trip

Sometimes the big bike likes a rest.