One-piece suit questions

[challey]

I recently acquired an Olympia Phantom 1-pc suit and want to tap into the collective experience of this board regarding the suitability of long-distance summer riding in it.

Specifically, I'm curious to see if anyone uses the Phantom (or other 'Stich equivalent) in the summer heat. I've done a couple of short rides (100 or so RT miles) in relatively high heat (85 - 90F) and have found the suit to be marginally acceptable in those conditions. The ventilation is OK, and the suit is tolerable for those short trips but I'm wondering if I can use it for the ride to the Intl rally, which is about 1,800 each way for me. I'd expect that the temps in the mid-West will be consistently 90+F, and am worried that I'll roast.

Another related question is riding in the wet. Can I get away with just the Phantom for wet-weather riding or do I still need to carry and use raingear?

Charlie

[Boxer Briefs]

I'm afraid I can't offer advice with that suit, however... you might consider using one of these under your phantom-

http://store.mm411.com/catalog/index.cf ... 94&id=1005

They actually work quite well in "dry" heat. Wore mine on a 107F day in Montana last summer and, although not exactly equivalent to AC in a cage, it made life far more tolerable. That same day I met a couple riding 2 up on an RT, both were wearing Roadcrafter one piece suits and swore by them, in all types of weather.

Grant

[wncbmw]

I do not have the Phantom but have experience with the 'Stich in hot weather. There are many 'tricks' to hot weather riding with one, including wetting your tee shirt, ice in the front pockets, etc. and of course, something nifty like the cooling vest posted by Boxer Briefs. And the Phantom vents better than the 'Stich, which is why I kept my AST jacket (basically the ancestor of the Phantom) and sold my Roadcrafter. So all the 'tricks' will work better.

That said, I am now firmly convinced all the tricks in world will not make the 'Stich or Phantom comfortable in 90+ temps. Survivable but not comfortable. Which is why I have mesh and perfed leather for hot weather riding. This past weekend I was riding in mid-80s and remarkably comfortable with perfed Vanson pants and jacket. As long as I was moving!

The Phantom should be waterproof but if you have to open all the vents to stay cool, that seems like a mute point.

[MikeCam]

Moot. The word is moot.

Mute means silent, without speech. Moot means meaningless, uncertain.

Vann, We need to talk.....

Now about those suits.... I understand the Phantom is waterproof with the Goretex liner installed, not more than water resistant with the liner out. I'd point out, however, that in plus 90F temps, getting a little wet is not a problem. Going from here to Gillette in a Phantom without a rainsuit is probably a practical trip. If it rains, you'll get cooled off. If it rains really hard, there will likely be lightning also, in which case you'll seek shelter. Cool evenings won't exist, thus hypothermia will not be a problem, until you reach the Wyoming highlands.

[wncbmw]

Mute means silent, without speech. Moot means meaningless, uncertain.

Yes Professor Cam! I am properly chastised.

And I have to agree on the rain in the hot weather point. If I wear mesh, it is very hot and I often don't even bother with rain gear. Let the rain cool me off!

[bruno71]

Although it doesn't happen frequently, MikeCam is wrong about the liner needing to be installed for the Olympia Phantom to be waterproof (I own and use one, it is only thermal not gortex). The liner is only adds another layer to make it warmer (50 degrees F-single digit temps.) The suit has a waterproof shell, unless the vents are open. It only takes 30 seconds to close them if it starts raining (faster than putting on rain gear). However, IMO the suit is fairly unbearable in temps over 85 degrees F even with the liner out and the vents open. I haven't tried any of the "tricks" mentioned, but I suppose your imagination is the limit. If you plan on riding in the mountains, it will probably be okay. It is a great suit from October to early May in most temperate zones but June-mid September I think it would be too hot unless you are riding 7000 feet above sea level or somewhere much further north. It is still a great suit and you can't beat in in cold temps. With an electric vest, I can ride the suit in temps approaching zero degrees F. Today it was in the mid-90's in SLC and I was sweltering in my Tourmaster Transition 2 jacket with all seven vents open (it is not as thick as the Olympia Phantom!). I'll be wearing mesh again until it cools off some.

Best of Luck on your trip.

-Bruno

[MikeCam]

Bruno,

Thanks for the correction. (It actually needs done more often than you think.)

M

[iowabeakster]

I don't know about the suit, so I can't answer about it.

I do know about midwest summers. They can be oppressive. At 85 F you might be comfortable or you might dehydrate and have a dizzy spell. It depends on the humidity. I am not exaggerating, it can be a real danger. The thermometer may be misleading. If the temps are 90+ F please be very careful. 95 F is very hazardous.

I wear mesh and mesh can be way too hot. I can't imagine a one piece, no matter how many vents it may have. Although I do believe in wearing the saftey gear, and always do...I sometimes look at the guys riding without gear and think that it is totally sane.

Be aware and stay hydrated, whatever you wear. Do you have anything like this?
http://www.camelbak.com.au/secureshop/c ... ?cat_id=27

Safe travels and have fun.

[sweatmark]

Can't speak directly to your suit's characteristics.

But I can make a comparison between 90+ degF hot weather riding in an Aerostich Darien jacket and Motoport Kevlar mesh jacket: even using the old school tricks of shirt soaking, bandana filled with ice cubes around neck, all vents open... the Aerostich was insufferable. We spent 2 long 400 mile days riding in 90-105 degF conditions, from Calgary back home to western Oregon, and we've never been so grumpy as a group. The following winter I ordered the Kelvar mesh gear (with waterproof inner liner) to remedy such a situation. Note that the riding was not even full suit, but wearing jeans.

Now don't get me wrong, I love the Darien Gore-tex jacket. It's my go-to moto gear, and I love it's ugly greenish grey many-pocketed utilitarianism. But it just plain sucks in the heat, dry or humid.

[wncbmw]

Thanks for the correction. (It actually needs done more often than you think.)

But we are only to happy to oblige when needed!

I agree with sweatmark's reasoning, echoing what I said - the Aerostich/Phantom route is doable, just not anywhere near comfortable.

I also seen to agree with him on something else - I have a pair of Motoport Kelvar mesh pants on order, with the waterproof liners! Perhaps the answer to my long and expensive quest for the perfect year-round gear!

[oiasghar]

I ride year round in Texas heat using the BMW Phase III jacket and pants over street clothes while commuting and yes it gets a bit warm while your are sitting still but everything is fine while moving. In fact the full suit does a better job of insulating you from the heat than mesh or no gear at all. Though it is not a Darien or Phantom one piece but it is the same situation. On the trip to Florida in June I wore the same setup but over silk liners (full length) with temps from 90F to 101F and never felt uncomfortable to the point where I wanted to get out of them. I did use a Camelback to stay hydrated on the 800 mile day. In fact I find it impossible to wear mesh when it gets over 90F. Over 100F I will actually start to close the vents to the point where they just provide a bit of circulation but not a blast of hot air. Maybe the daily commute in the Texas heat has got me used to the balmy weather.

[sweatmark]

I have a pair of Motoport Kelvar mesh pants on order, with the waterproof liners! Perhaps the answer to my long and expensive quest for the perfect year-round gear!

Gotta confess I was skeptical about the Motoport waterproof liner, imagining myself confined within a black plastic garbage bag in clammy discomfort. But the thing works: have ridden it thus far in some nasty wet & cold Oregon winter weather, and remained dry and windproof-warm. Wearing a heated vest under the mesh jacket's liner makes for flexible comfort.

Note that I only have the Kevlar mesh jacket; Motoport built me some GP-2 stretch Kevlar pants that zip to an old Difi/Cycleport/Motoport GP-2 jacket for trackdays and wannabe-squid rides. The sizing and structure of the GP-2 pants was kinda screwed up: my knee pucks end up mid-shin when attached to the velcro patch area, but that could have been as much my faulty measurements as their manufacturing. Now I'm seriously thinking about matching mesh Kevlar pants that'll zip to the mesh jacket... THAT would be a very comfortable and versatile setup.

[Lion_Lady]

Hubby's got the Phantom one piece and LOVES IT. I recently bought the Stealth suit (Olympia's summer/mesh version). I love it!!

Hubby is considering getting a Stealth for hot weather (we live in MD, sticky, humid heat - YUCK!!) I am "covered" as far as cold weather riding gear, but needed an easy in/out option for hot weather. The stealth fits the bill. I chose the lightest, silver color option rather than the highlighter yellow. Also available in gunmetal gray with highlighter yellow shoulder panels.

Not waterproof, no liner. At $300 retail its a pretty good deal. I got mine with a discount because I'm an MSF instructor.

P

[wncbmw]

Now I'm seriously thinking about matching mesh Kevlar pants that'll zip to the mesh jacket... THAT would be a very comfortable and versatile setup.

We are going in reverse from each other. I am more in need of pants at the moment but if I like the Kevlar mesh pants, I will probably order a jacket this winter!

The Stealth suit looks like a nice option, if you like the mesh products. I feel much better protected in the perfed leather and nearly as comfortable but am tired of the other more inconvenient aspects of wearing armored leather pants for a long weekend, hence the experiment with the Kevlar mesh. I will make a report after testing!

[sweatmark]

Vann,

I think you'll like the mesh Kevlar material. Mrs. Sweatmark has a BMW summer jacket that uses the same Kevlar mesh material for the "breathing" panels, almost an exact match for the material in my Motoport Air Mesh jacket.

I've been wary of the comfort versus protection question WRT common mesh motogear, specifically the issues of abrasion resistance and potential for burns. Does anyone have direct crash experience with the type of mesh material used in the Olympia gear?

Last month I low-sided during a sport ride on my Buell while wearing the Motoport jacket. There was no evidence of my pavement slide on the mesh Kevlar material's face, but other portions of the jacket that use some type of conventional nylon did get road rashed; I escaped any harm beyond bruising. Oh, and it was a warm day and I was comfortable pre- and post-crash.

[Lion_Lady]

I have no concerns about the protection of textile gear. I lowsided and slid about 50 feet, wearing BMW summer (textile) pants and the Airflow jacket. Cruiserworks boots. My bike was on my right leg. Olympia is at least as good as the BMW stuff.

I suffered no road rash and the tiniest abrasion on my right arm from the edge of an armor pad inside the jacket. The jacket probably could have been re-used, but there was a dime size hole on the right knee - to the armor - Progressive was paying for new gear so I replaced both pieces (and my helmet).

P

[mcollect]

I ride year long in Olympia AST jacket but the ranger trousers are horrible above80. I like two piece suits because they allow you to change one item. I ride in draggin jeans when temps get above 80, I am not sure about protective strengths of them but the best option I have found. I allways have the Rangers in my saddle bags, because in the Marylan mountains rain is only a short distance away. I have been dry in the Olympia in all weather even though they are two piece, and they zip together, like racing leathers. I still have HG racing leathers but haven't worn them since getting the Olympia's.

[challey]

Thanks to all for the replies.

Particular thanks to Professor Caminetti for his treatise on the Moot/Mute issue. Perhaps the good Professor will now considerer providing a brief lecture on why using the phrase "point in time" is incorrect (hint: there are at least 56 definitions of the word "point", none of which have to do with temporal functions)?

Charlie