Again on windshield

[lucagoa]

Hello,

just got the original BMW "tall windshield" and went out for a ride (about 220 km). I'm 1,70 tall (5,57 ft) with an inseam of 30. Lot of pressure released from my shoulder but I found a lot of turbulence around my helmet, even at low speed (60-70 km/h). At high speed noise was very annoying. I removed the windshield and the situation around helmet improved a lot but, on the other hands, lots of pressure on my shoulders (of course......). Now, according your experience, I would like to move to a Cee Bailey screen but I'm not sure if the 16" or the 18" . What do you think?
Thanks for your help.
Luca

[hankth]

Just got a CE Bailey 18" which is about 5" over the standard "tall" BMW sheild. Big improvement. There is still a lot of wind at helmet level, but it seems to be fairly smooth air. I may have been better off with the 20", as i would still be able to look over it. I'm 5'8", 30 inseam. I'd like to hear from people with the 20"
Hank

[lucagoa]

Thanks Hank,

I'm also curious to know something from someone who has the 20"
Luca

[peckhammer]

I may have been better off with the 20"
Hank

Many of you saw my video about installing the Cee Baily's 18" shield. I am finding the noise and turbulence to be a bit much, so I just ordered the 20". I am 6 feet tall, so I think the 18" is just a little too short. As I said in the video, buying a shield is trial and error. Too bad Cee Baily's just raised the price on all their shields.

When I hold my glove out at the edge of the 18" shield, the noise and turbulence drop. This has me hopeful that the extra 2" will make the difference.

[Caol]

Thanks Hank,

I'm also curious to know something from someone who has the 20"
Luca

I tried the Cee Bailey 20" and had to swap back to the BMW "tall" shield. I'm 5' 12-1/2" (186cm) with a 33" inseam (84cm), on the standard seat and the 20" shield dumped all the air right into the middle of my face plate with heavy turbulence.

So, for me, I'm thinking a slightly shorter shield and an American Motorcycle Specialties butt pad, which is about an inch and a half thick, would put the air flow just about shoulder level and leave my helmet in clean air and still give me better weather coverage.

Kyle

[ka5ysy]

Here is my complete odyssey of finding a windscreen that worked correctly:


http://www.dualsportridersoflouisiana.c ... 378&page=4



Doug

[lucagoa]

Kile thanks, as I'm slightly shorter than you (1,71 cm) I think the 18" Cee Bailey will fit.
Doug, thanks, your post was very helpful.

Now I get to the hardest point. I've to find out how to get a Cee Bailey 18" shipped in Italy (Price of Europe retailers are out of the worls )

Luca

[deilenberger]

Hello,

just got the original BMW "tall windshield" and went out for a ride (about 220 km). I'm 1,70 tall (5,57 ft) with an inseam of 30. Lot of pressure released from my shoulder but I found a lot of turbulence around my helmet, even at low speed (60-70 km/h). At high speed noise was very annoying. I removed the windshield and the situation around helmet improved a lot but, on the other hands, lots of pressure on my shoulders (of course......). Now, according your experience, I would like to move to a Cee Bailey screen but I'm not sure if the 16" or the 18" . What do you think?
Thanks for your help.
Luca

Luca,

Not sure exactly how tall you are - 5 foot and ?? as best I can calculate around 5'7".. which is what I am. Your inseam is a bit longer by about 2", so your head is likely to be about 1-2" higher than mine.

I'd suggest looking at: http://r1150r.org/board/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=13637 - I own and have tried all three height Cee-Bailey screens. NONE of them are totally turbulence free.

and

http://r1150r.org/board/viewtopic.php?f ... c85b5ca945

Right now, I'm using the MRA "Vario-shield" on the BMW mount. The shield requires some modifications to use with the BMW mount, so you might be better off using the mount they provide with it, at least to start with. I found it worked better if the gap/slot between the two halves is sealed up with a strip of foam rubber to stop air going through it - less turbulence. The MRA has one big advantage - height adjustment.

[Right Hand Drive]

Hank, I am the exact same height as you (5' 8") with the same inseam (30"). I've been using a Cee Bailey 20" for a couple of months now. It does what it says on the tin. Very little wind blast, even when turning my head to look behind and I can see over the top of it very easily (standard height seat fitted). The windblast just grazes the top of my helmet. I seem to have a little bit of turbulence around the upper chest area but the screen is great as far as protection goes. Anything shorter than 20" wouldn't provide adequate protection as far as I can tell. I reckon if you're gonna go with a tall windscreen then this has got to be the one to go for. But - I'm not convinced I like the tall shield from an aesthetic viewpoint so I have gone back to my BMW Touring shield. The protection is definitely not as good but I can tolerate it for the looks - each to his own I guess. Luca, if you would like a nearly new Cee Bailey's 20" let me know and we can discuss price. Postage from UK to Italy is not too much. I ordered the screen direct from the U.S. and have already soaked up the hefty import duty into Europe levied by Her Majesty's Customs and Exise.

[lucagoa]

Don, I'm 5 7" with inseam 30. I already red your post regarding Vario and I found it very interesting
At the beginnning my intention was to go for the Vario screen but I thought it would be a little "invasive" for the look of the bike and stick to BMW touring Mistake!

Rich,

thanks but for the moment I think the Cee Bailey 20" is a little "high" for me. Surely good protection but I'm afraid I do not like the "tall" look.

Luca

[Bill Stevenson]

I hope you guys don't mind if I vent a bit here. This whole windshield shortfall/flaw is caused by BMW in Germany. The BMW Marketing Department in Germany decided that the R1200R is a "City" bike, whatever in the hell that means, and you who are not happy with the "tall" windscreen accessory clearly bought the wrong bike. In BMW management thinking you should have purchased an RT. Well news flash for BMW, we are the buyers and it is OUR MONEY and we want to choose which model is best for us, how it will be used, and how it will be equipped. The R1150R Tall windshield works very well, in my opinion far better than any of the after market options of similar size. The only reason a similar windshield is not on offer for the new model is because of their "City" bike concept. BMW is missing the boat by not offering a proper tall screen for the R1200R and this thread is proof that there is a demand for such an offering.

The 20 inch Cee Bailey looks like it could overload the BMW bracket at high speed particularly with buffeting such as might be created by a large truck traveling in the opposing lane. BMW did not make that bracket for such a large surface area. If the bracket failed because of overload, the result could be catastrophic.

If BMW Germany (Note: The BMW NA people nod sympathetically when I speak to them about this problem) were a little more customer friendly, we would not be faced with this shortfall in what is otherwise a stupendous motorcycle. This is nothing new, but I still get aggravated with the company over their management style. And before I get off my soapbox, why can't we buy the excellent electronic cruise control that is standard on the RT if we want it on our R? Ridiculous.

End of rant. Thanks, I feel better now.

Bill

[hoonu]

What about the shortfall on BIKES?

[Caroanbill]

I'm very happy with the Parabellum screen - much quieter than the BMW screen or the 16" Cee Bailey. I'm 5'8" in american money (172cm) and use a BMW System 5 (flip-up) helmet. I have the smaller parabellum - 22", I think (mature onset memory lapse).

As for wind pressure, the Parabellum is more curved than the Cee Bailey, so while it has more surface area, it seems less affected by windblast from trucks etc. It's a thinner screen, too - but even so I don't notice any flexing under load. I think it simply slides through the air a little more cleanly thanks to the constant curve(s).

A trap for non-US users - the Parabellum is made for the wider US indicators. I had to enlarge the cut-outs.

[deilenberger]

I hope you guys don't mind if I vent a bit here. This whole windshield shortfall/flaw is caused by BMW in Germany. The BMW Marketing Department in Germany decided that the R1200R is a "City" bike, whatever in the hell that means, and you who are not happy with the "tall" windscreen accessory clearly bought the wrong bike. In BMW management thinking you should have purchased an RT. Well news flash for BMW, we are the buyers and it is OUR MONEY and we want to choose which model is best for us, how it will be used, and how it will be equipped. The R1150R Tall windshield works very well, in my opinion far better than any of the after market options of similar size. The only reason a similar windshield is not on offer for the new model is because of their "City" bike concept. BMW is missing the boat by not offering a proper tall screen for the R1200R and this thread is proof that there is a demand for such an offering.

I agree it would be nice if BMW provided a screen that was all things for all people, but - since people come in all sorts of sizes, that's not an easy thing to do (also obvious from this thread.)

The primary interest BMW has is in selling the bikes. Large screens aren't the most attractive thing in the world, so I'm guessing the marketing people had a bit to say. It's not as if this is the first BMW made where the aftermarket provided solutions for people who weren't happy with BMWs solution (I can't think of a single BMW where SOME aftermarket accessories aren't available..)

The 20 inch Cee Bailey looks like it could overload the BMW bracket at high speed particularly with buffeting such as might be created by a large truck traveling in the opposing lane. BMW did not make that bracket for such a large surface area. If the bracket failed because of overload, the result could be catastrophic.

Looks and experience differ. I have about 10,000 miles on mine. The bracket is holding up just fine, and my bracket also has a rather heavy GPS (Navigator-III) mounted on the top of it. It's sturdy enough for any of the Cee-Bailey screens.

If BMW Germany (Note: The BMW NA people nod sympathetically when I speak to them about this problem) were a little more customer friendly, we would not be faced with this shortfall in what is otherwise a stupendous motorcycle. This is nothing new, but I still get aggravated with the company over their management style. And before I get off my soapbox, why can't we buy the excellent electronic cruise control that is standard on the RT if we want it on our R? Ridiculous.

End of rant. Thanks, I feel better now.

Bill

And I'd like the cruise control, but my poor-mans substitute (an O ring behind the bar-end weight) has worked well for 12,000 miles so far. Cost was reasonable.. about $0.30..

[Bill Stevenson]

Don,

I don't want to get into an argument with you about this, but I do want anyone who might be reading our discussion to think it through before mounting a 20 inch Cee Bailey windscreen on the BMW tall bracket like you have done. Notwithstanding your 10,000 miles experience, the fact remains that the BMW tall windscreen bracket is not as strong as the one BMW offers with the R1150R tall screen, which is similar in size to the 20 inch Cee Bailey screen. This is a clear signal to me that the BMW tall bracket for the R1200R would be heavily taxed and at the very least the safety margin built into it is being used up by the larger screen.

We all ride differently. You might be a less aggressive rider than another who could have problems with the weaker bracket. Each of us must make our own decisions about these things of course, and it is not my intention to fault your decision. For me, however, this issue stops the option of a large Cee Bailey. Maybe I am just overly conservative, it is one aspect of the curse of being an engineer. It is really a shame that BMW does not offer a more effective tall screen as an option for our R1200Rs.

I have been riding BMW motorcycles off and on for over 37 years and have somewhere above 300K miles on them. Over the years I have owned a variety of windscreens and fairings both OEM and after market. Not one of the after market products worked as well as the ones offered by BMW once the company started offering them. So it is frustrating that the company falls short in this department for this bike.

The most important thing is to have fun.

Bill

[deilenberger]

Don,

I don't want to get into an argument with you about this, but I do want anyone who might be reading our discussion to think it through before mounting a 20 inch Cee Bailey windscreen on the BMW tall bracket like you have done. Notwithstanding your 10,000 miles experience, the fact remains that the BMW tall windscreen bracket is not as strong as the one BMW offers with the R1150R tall screen, which is similar in size to the 20 inch Cee Bailey screen. This is a clear signal to me that the BMW tall bracket for the R1200R would be heavily taxed and at the very least the safety margin built into it is being used up by the larger screen.

Indeed people should think it through. I did. And I watch mine and see no sign of failure (I'm not sure where you feel the failure would occur - I'm an ex-engineer, now keyboard jock.) The experience I've had, and from what I've seen from others using this shield - is no failures. I suspect there are quite a number of people using the Cee-Bailey screen by now, and I haven't heard of a single mount failure.

BTW - I just took a look at the REALOEM drawing of the R1150R screen mount:
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do ... g=46&fg=55



It appears very similar in design and mounting to the bike to the R12R mount, with the exception the R12R mount has a forward lower bar - reinforced - that mounts down to the front of the bike:
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do ... g=46&fg=55



Just looking at the drawings of the two, I don't see where the R1150R one is particularly stronger looking, but I'm sure I'm missing something. I'm curious why you feel one is stronger than the other - from an engineering point of view (don't be afraid to be technical.. I have enough background to probably not get too lost..)

We all ride differently. You might be a less aggressive rider than another who could have problems with the weaker bracket.

No argument, but food for thought - the "internet amplifier" (multiple forum reports of ANY failure followed by extensive cross-quoting between forums, see rear-drive and EWS failures for examples) would seem to have turned up any weakness in the CeeBailey 20" on the factory shield mount by now.

I'm sure there are more agressive riders then me using them and I haven't heard of any failures.. might be a matter of time - perhaps with 100,000 miles instead of 10,000 miles. YMMV. So I tell people what *I* do or what *my* experience has been - not what they should do.

If we could convince ChiTown to use a Cee-Bailey for 10k miles I think we'd have a real acid test of durability.

The most important thing is to have fun.

Bill

No argument. I'm having a great deal of fun with the Roadster..

Keep the rubber side down..

EDIT - one thought occurred to me.. I do have the factory mount that came with the MRA VarioShield. The VarioShield all the way up is roughly 19.5" tall. Due to the two piece construction it is also a bit heavier than the Cee-Bailey 20" shield. The mount that MRA provides relies on single bolt-fastened pivot points that appear to me to be less secure than the factory BMW tall-shield mount. Just a data point. I haven't tried these mounts because I wanted to use it with the Touring mount from BMW. The MRA mount probably is just fine - it does have TUV approval which for me - counts for something.

[Bill Stevenson]

Don,

The R1150R tall windshield bracket is built from larger diameter tubing which is stronger than the material used for the much smaller R1200R tall screen. There are actually four separate arms that attach high and low on each side of the R1150R support system. The mounting to the triple clamp is inherently stronger at all four separate points too. On the R1200R tall bracket, which is a nice design by the way and much easier to install, attachment to the triple clamp is at only two points, one on each side and the mounting is to "L" brackets stamped from sheet steel. Without testing one to failure, I can only speculate about the failure mode for the R1200R tall bracket. Two obvious possibilities: First, one or both of the stamped steel "L" brackets bends (bad); second, the weld between one or both of the "L" brackets fails between bracket and tubing (worse). Metal fatigue failure is time related and not always easy to discover before failure. The R1150R bracketing is so strong that I think the loss of one whole arm would not matter at all even at high speed.

Both designs are robust for their intended loadings and the difference between them reflects the different requirements of two very different sized of windscreens. BMW engineers design things with plenty of margin, but you should understand that the larger the screen, the greater the load and the more risk there is for metal fatigue failure of the bracket over time if it is loaded beyond design. The fact that you can detect no movement of the windshield is a good sign, but unfortunately not a 100% certain way to know that all is well. I recommend that you continue to carefully inspect the bracket frequently and look for any signs of distortion (bending) or stress cracking particularly at the two "L" brackets which look like the weakest points on the bracket. You might want to consider replacing the bracket every once in while (like every other year or every 25,000 miles or some such) as a sort of preventative maintenance item. The smaller the screen you choose, the less load there is on the bracket. Accordingly, if you want to be conservative maybe use one of your smaller screens in warmer weather and/or for local riding, and use the larger one only in cold weather and/or for your longer rides or tours.

This got way off my original point, which remains that it is more than somewhat irksome that BMW does not acknowledge that there is a need for a larger screen for the the R1200R. If they do develop a taller, wider screen more suitable for long distances and higher speeds for this model, I would wager that the bracket would be much stouter than the current one.

Regards,

Bill

[Graf]

love to see this discussion between 2 engineers:-)........but at the end.....I do beleive that most people dismiss al of this ang go with something that will work for them......structural strenght put aside:-)

[Enjoy-Rider]

I have read your discussion with great interest.
As you can see on this picture, I have the (as we call it) comfort screen (probably what you call the tall screen):



Since I am 6 ft tall ánd since my length is mostly in my legs.......I just swapped the standard seat for the higher seat (without any extra costs ). So now I sit even higher then before.
Last saturday I made a 200 km tour over highways while there was a strong wind. I really had to struggle against the wind, while the K1200GT that was accompanying me (see the one next to me) hardly had any trouble.
Now I don't mind struggling now and then, but I am afraid that on hollidays abroad, when you sometimes drive a highway for a whole day with 140 km/hr (90 miles/hr), it will be too much.

So I thougt, maybe I can buy a spare tall screen (20") that I can easily put on my R1200R only for hollidays where I have to ride a few thousands of kilometers.
Do you know whether it is possible to easibly swap the originally tall (comfort) screen for a 20" screen and replace it when coming home again?
I want to do it this way because I dont like the looks of the 20" screen on a naked bike like the R1200R. I even would have preferred the sport screen (the original small screen), but I thought that wouldn't give me any protection at all.


Bye the way......the higher seat is much more comfortable to me!! I think the standard seat is too soft......the higer one is less soft and really much more comfortable!

Regards,
Jouke

[deilenberger]

So I thougt, maybe I can buy a spare tall screen (20") that I can easily put on my R1200R only for hollidays where I have to ride a few thousands of kilometers.
Do you know whether it is possible to easibly swap the originally tall (comfort) screen for a 20" screen and replace it when coming home again?

Takes less than 5 minutes (even metric minutes.. )

I want to do it this way because I dont like the looks of the 20" screen on a naked bike like the R1200R. I even would have preferred the sport screen (the original small screen), but I thought that wouldn't give me any protection at all.

Bye the way......the higher seat is much more comfortable to me!! I think the standard seat is too soft......the higer one is less soft and really much more comfortable!

Regards,
Jouke

The seat may be a case of the foam softening up with use. My low seat has gotten more and more comfortable as it has conformed to my buttocks.. I think the seats to break in with use. Of course the higher one may work better for you because it probably also changes your posture on the bike, changing how your weight is distributed.

Nice looking bike!