Help with Swingarm

[Beemeridian]

22

[Daryl_stamp]

Beemeridian; I don't know you but I've seen a lot of yours posts and feel compelled to offer a shot of encouragement.

No failure on your part; you've enlightened me (& I am sure many others). Now you're more experienced than many of us are.

'In over your head' may be better known as enlarging your skill-set.

The only people that don't do anything wrong are those that don't do anything.

My first debacle with a MC was using carb cleaner on my '82 Virago. I touched the diaphragm with my fingers while it was still wet with cleaner and created a hole in it. I couldn't afford a new one so I tried to think of a repair. It turns out that a section of condom (unlubricated version) and rubber cement are good for a few hundred miles before the gas fumes damage the rubber cement &/or the latex to the point that it doesn't work anymore, at which point I just repeated the repair. I kept that up for over a year. Was a real downer when it happened; now all I remember was what I learned from it.

DLS

[Beemeridian]

22

[Boxer]

Carlos is our quiet genius. His explanation only confirms my suspicions that BMW's manual is only for those that already know what to do. I would never have figured that out about the "needles" and the mysterious inner races.

With that knowledge, you should be able to use Cyclerob's cure and then put that thing back together in no time. Make sure there's no play in that swing arm pivot this time.

[Beemeridian]

22

[rpaul01754]

I had a similar problem last fall when I removed my swing arm to lube and adjust the pivots. The manuals say to heat the bolts and I used a heat gun but it will take about an hour to soften the loctite. I didn't want to use a propane torch because it will blister the paint. I thought I had heated it enough but when it came loose the threads were damaged on the pivot pin bolt. I'm betting that this is what happened to your bike too.

A couple of points
1) the factory loctite is very strong and high temp. the green color does not mean it is low strength like the USA products. there is not a color code in europe.
2) the bolt is Aluminum and the case is aluminum
3) having the swing arm move up, as shown in the pic, is not a big deal unless there is a load on it. I assume you have removed the wheel but even more importantly the lower shock bolt.
4) clean as much of the old loctite off the female threads as you can. I used a small X-acto blade to chip most of it out of the threads, but a solvent is a better idea. check the loctite web page and see if you can find out what solvent can be used. I think acetone will soften it, if memory serves. Be very carefull with acetone. It can be absorbed through your skin and I bet it will damage the paint on your trans case. Try using a Q-tip.
5) chasing the threads from the inside to the outside as mentioned above is the best bet
6) I searched high and low and could not find a tap for these threads. so good luck, and tell us if you do find one.
7) the bearings are tapered roller bearings like the front of a 2WD pickup. the pivot bolts just align and push on the inner cone.
as noted above the threads on my bolts were damaged.... the threads were cracked and came off in little crescents. inspect the threads very carefully and be ready to buy a new adjuster bolt.

After this experience I was not about to use loctite again. I used never-seize on the threads and reassembled. I was worried about the nut coming loose so I used a permanent marker to make a little dot aligning the adjusting bolt with the case. I've gone 8000 miles since then and it has not moved at all. But do whatever makes you feel safe because nasty stuff will happen if that pin comes out when you are riding.

[Beemeridian]

22

[Sunbeemer]

Just a note that copper and aluminum don't play well together - copper corrodes aluminum over time. Use zinc-based anti-seize on aluminum fittings if that's what you need to do.

[Beemeridian]

22

[rpaul01754]

Probably the same procedure as doing wheel bearings will work. I used my in-lb torque wrench. I fooled around with the adjustment a little to get a feel and I seem to remember it was just a bit tighter than how wheel bearings get adjusted. (which is usually spin the wheel, snug down the nut, then back off the nut and finger tighten. ) It makes sense since the swing arm is not turning like a wheel does.

Sunbeemer is correct - use never seize, but look for the zinc-nickel based stuff. It's silver in color.

I think BMW used the wicked loctite mainly for legal reasons. It certainly is NOT the mechanics friend.

If you have not yet removed the RH pivot pins then you'll have some fun with them too. Try to figure out a good way to heat them without damaging the paint. If someone can find an aluminum or brass allen key to fit into the adjuster then heat can be applied to the end of the allen and it should conduct lots of heat down deep (where it is needed) into the adjuster.

[Sunbeemer]

Beemeridian, how do the needle bearings and their races look?
A notorius mechanic at a tech seminar at the MOA rally stated he has never seen a set of bearings come out of a paralever arm that he would reuse and recommended changing them out for a modified Oilite bushing assembly custom manufactured by:
http://rubberchickenracinggarage.com/bushings.html
Unfortunately, they are currently out of stock, but may be accepting orders again on 12/10. I believe they were $135/set.

The complaint was that these bearings rock back and forth under load (rather than spin) and wear notches in the races. However, needle bearings used in U-joints do the same thing. Could you possibly post a picture of the races and bearings you removed to clear up my confusion?

Thanks if you can!

[CycleRob]

Like I suspected in my earlier posts above, the thread damage was caused by heating only the pivot pin (bolt) instead of the casting area all around it. Heating just the bolt makes the bolt expand more than the part it threads into, binding it solid in the female threads. Then, when you try to turn it, the small thin fine threads will be ripped off. Aluminum is especially vulnerable because of its higher expansion rate and comparatively lower strength that goes even lower when heated HOT.

This technique of heating ONLY the female threads/parts/area is SOP (Standard Operating Procedure) for removing locktighted fasteners or any interference press fitted parts.

Because it ignores the shop manual's procedure I will describe, but not recommend, the way I removed my pivot pins. Any time the fastener head is stout, substantial or deep -and- applying heat can cause problems or local damage (ruin seals), I just utilize normal operational heat, a breaker bar and good judgment of the Go/NoGo damage threshold. Let me repeat that for you: "And good judgment of the Go/NoGo damage threshold". I was afraid the torque reaction would flip the bike over, but it came off pretty easy with no damage.

[awagnon]

I was afraid the torque reaction would flip the bike over, Laughing but it came off pretty easy with no damage.

Reminds me of that video on the internet about a year ago where a guy tries to take off a lug nut from a small car, a Mini Cooper I believe, with a pneumatic wrench and the car spins. Was pretty funny looking.

[Beemeridian]

22

[awagnon]

here is shot of the inner races (if I understand Abreacames correctly that the pivot pin ends are the inner races)

I'm confused by the posts about the inner races. What is shown in the photograph are the bearing carriers which slide into the inner race of the bearing. The inner race looks like a tapered ring and should come out in your hand from the bearing. It will probably have flat areas where each of the roller bearings have worn the race ( unless yours is very different from mine ).

[Beemeridian]

22

[Arbreacames]

Let me try a picture. That will save me 1000 words:

A word of caution: the upstream U-joint is HARD to see! Keep looking carefully until you see it.

[Arbreacames]

The inner race looks like a tapered ring and should come out in your hand from the bearing.

ERRATA
Awagon is correct: I had forgotten about the ring that goes over the pin: that's a separate tapered ring which is the actual inner race. In any event, whether it's in one piece or two, you have to make sure that 1) it is not worn or pitted, and 2) that you center it properly as you push it in so that the bearing is not ruined.
ENDERRATA

[Beemeridian]

22

[Beemeridian]

22