Suspension options

[Echo]

I'll be testing riding the R12R within the month. I'm coming from Ducatis and a GS but I owned (my favorite ride) the R11R for seven years.

Most of the my bikes have been equipped with Ohlins or Wilbers. How good are the current stock shocks on the R12R and are people "upgrading" right away? My R11R shocks were toast after 15K and were replaced with Ohlins.

[deilenberger]

I replaced my stock shocks with HyperPro - from the former Wilbers importer to the US - Klaus Hueneke.. now selling Hyperpro and YSS suspension under the company name EPM Performance Imports.

http://www.epmperf.com/

The stock suspension isn't awful. As far as a stock BMW suspension it's really rather good - but it can be improved on if you're willing to spend the money.

I finally - and it's been several frustrating weeks - got my HyperPro stuff "dialed-in" - and the reason it took so long is I was fiddling without attending to basics.

The story - short version: When Klaus sells you shocks - he asks your weight, riding style, 1 up or 2 up, luggage, etc, and your riding style. Klaus had my numbers from a few years ago when he did some Wilbers for me. Problem is - my numbers changed, and I didn't make a point of it when I ordered them. Mostly my waist changed - which resulted in the shocks coming setup with too little preload. I was battling with the damping adjustments - when all that REALLY needed doing was setting up the preload so I got the numbers Hyperpro specified for the shocks.

They are unusual in they don't give a dynamic preload sag measurement - guess I better explain:

Static sag - is the distance the suspension compresses with just the weight of the bike on two wheels vs the unloaded suspension.

Dynamic sag - is the distance the suspension compresses from the unloaded distance with the bike on two wheels and my fat ass sitting on it.

They did give a specification for "static sag" of 10mm +/-5mm for the rear suspension. The rule of thumb - dynamic sag should be 1/3rd the total suspension travel. I calculated what the total suspension travel would be - and what the 1/3rd dynamic sag should be.

When the shocks came - I thought they had been preset for the correct sag. It turns out they were if I was about 30lbs lighter, and if the sag was measured without the saddlebags and tankbag and my tools on the bike.

With the settings as they came for the rear suspension - instead of 10mm static sag, I was getting 22-23mm. The dynamic sag was 44mm - when 1/3rd of the travel of the shock should have resulted in around 36mm.

Finally - last night I spent a few hours in the garage setting the rear suspension so I had the correct sag, and the correct shock length to help maintain the steering-head-angle. The time part was figuring out what I wanted (an Excel spreadsheet helped) - and then measuring, making some pre-load changes and remeasuring. Once I got the static sag set correctly - only a very tiny change was needed to get exactly the dynamic sag I'd calculated.

The results were finally what I'd hoped for - the suspension today felt supple over bad pavement, steady at high speeds and well controlled in corners. This is what I expect with good quality aftermarket suspension - and while the stock is good - it's not as good as a correctly dialed in quality suspension. I suspect since you've experienced Ohlins - you'll love what a good quality set of dampers and springs will do for the bike. Good suspension is one of those things that once you have it - you don't want to do without it. I'm a notably slow rider - glacial is the way people describe my pace (I just consider it "sane") - I do find I increase my average speed when the suspension feels "right" - and that happened today.. I felt more confident going at a moderately faster speed. You don't have to be ricky-racer to appreciate good suspension.

I also had the bike height lowered 20mm (about 3/4") since I'm somewhat short of inseam. This is a compromise that makes the good suspension even more important since the lowering always results in less suspension travel. Good damping can help compensate for less travel and less clearance being available.

The full-boat Hyperpro 3D-model shocks: front has adjustable rebound damping and manual preload adjuster; rear has hi/low speed compression damping adjustments, rebound damping adjustment, hydraulic preload adjuster, length adjuster - runs a bit less than $2k. I feel it's worth it.

DISCLAIMER: YMMV and all that.. and Klaus is a good friend - I sorta got him into this business quite a few years ago. If you go with the HyperPro - make sure you tell Klaus if you put on any weight :-) Mention I suggested it

[hass]

I have the stock ESA set up on my R12R and it's great!

Way better than the suspension on my old K1200RS, better even than the standard Ohlins that came with my Aprilia RSV factory (as it is adjustable). I even prefer it to my K1200S with ESA as I think the duolever does slow the steering.

I also ride slowly (or sanely depending upon your perspective) but on the R12R I am faster over bumpy roads than I was on my K1200RS, K1200S or Aprilia.

If you love fiddling with suspension then you'll want to swap. If you (like me) just want it to work - with little investment in time or money - then I think the stock ESA setup is totally ok.

[celticus]

I'm glad you finally got it set up but I've got to admit I never would have thought about using an Excel spreadsheet ! Man!
Was you article in this month's MOA?
My ride with the stock shock is better than any I have ever had but I've always had 2nd hand bikes with most likely worn out shocks. Plus this is a modern darn good bike with a modern suspension.
Mark

[toner87]

Someone posted a link to a collection of suspension adjustment videos. http://www.onthethrottle.com/v2/
They actually had a pro putting people of different weights on a Black and White Rockster and measuring the dynamic sag. When he got to the guy who weighed 240, he said the stock suspension was sagging 2" and the rear needed to be replaced. I weigh 260 and I've been riding my Rockster for 4 years on the stock suspension with the preload adjusted to maximum height and back two clicks.
What would the board's recommendations be? No dieting jokes.
-------------------
Edit:
I went back and realized the video was kind of bogus, as the tech did nothing with the adjustable shock, just put 3 people on it of different weights at whatever setting the shock was set when it came from the factory.
T.

[Skippy]

As the bike is ment for two people and some lugage I guess anything up to 150 to 185 kg would be fine with the normal shock. I weigh in at about 120kg with gear on and have it almost at the highest preload setting and think it works fine.

[deilenberger]

Edit:
I went back and realized the video was kind of bogus, as the tech did nothing with the adjustable shock, just put 3 people on it of different weights at whatever setting the shock was set when it came from the factory.
T.

Was it even 3 people? It did appear to be a no-brain involvement video - just showed measuring the sag and saying "good" or "No good.."

[toner87]

It was three people, a girl and two guys, but they treated the bike as if the suspension was not adjustable. I cranked my rear shock all the way up and think I like it there even better.
T.

[Dan-A]

I was battling with the damping adjustments - when all that REALLY needed doing was setting up the preload so I got the numbers Hyperpro specified for the shocks.

My bike with 3500 miles on it has been "nervous and jumpy", not me the bike. While riding to the corners Sunday, one of my pals suggested lowering the preload two turns, and I had only been making the spring rate higher or lower.

The improvement was dramatic. The bike cruises very nicely with much more control.

I may still end up with Wilburs or Elkes since the front lacks adjustment, but I think I have several thousand comfortable miles ahead of me with the stock shocks.

[Echo]

Thanks for your responses.

Don,

Have you been pleased with your Hyperpros? I've used Wilbers (very good) and Ohlins (better) in the past.

[celticus]

Why are there not Ohlins for our bikes? It doesn't seem like the internals would be that much different than an R1200S or R1100S for that matter. Is it a matter of length?
Mark

[deilenberger]

I was battling with the damping adjustments - when all that REALLY needed doing was setting up the preload so I got the numbers Hyperpro specified for the shocks.

My bike with 3500 miles on it has been "nervous and jumpy", not me the bike. While riding to the corners Sunday, one of my pals suggested lowering the preload two turns, and I had only been making the spring rate higher or lower.

Not sure what you mean by "making the spring rate higher or lower" - but backing off the rear preload increases the steering angle - which slows the bikes turn-in and tends to make it more stable feeling in straight-aways..

The improvement was dramatic. The bike cruises very nicely with much more control.

I may still end up with Wilburs or Elkes since the front lacks adjustment, but I think I have several thousand comfortable miles ahead of me with the stock shocks.

Haven't heard of Elkes.. - can you fill us in?

[deilenberger]

Thanks for your responses.

Don,

Have you been pleased with your Hyperpros? I've used Wilbers (very good) and Ohlins (better) in the past.

I'm happy with them. They are on the Wilbers level IMHO - which I found superior to Ohlins on another bike I had them on. I like the adjustability - and they provide more for the $$ IMHO.

The HyperPro are a bit newer design, use a bladder type gas reservoir instead of a piston one (less sticktion), have a larger shock rod (stronger) and have a anti-stiction plated shock rod.. plus claimed better seal. Construction quality is excellent, and I like the progressive wound spring instead of a linear spring (allows for softer small movements without the risk of bottoming the shock.)

I also like having Klaus to service them and answer questions.. and didn't like how Benny Wilbers screwed Klaus over - which is another story. And Klaus is a good very longtime friend.

[ErikM]

Hass I agree the ESA is great EXCEPT that the cost of replacements is nuts. On the K1200S it's close to $3K for the parts alone...


[quote="hass"]I have the stock ESA set up on my R12R and it's great!

[Keyser Söze]

[r12r-don]

I am a HUGE fan of the stock ESA configuration. I've tried it on all the settings in just about every scenario. I've scraped pegs in sport mode, ride NYC traffic for commuting in soft, had the wife on all day rides with the two up option and normal and then soft on the way home on the super slab. You can't beat the touch of a button to change the setting. I can even dial in two up at a traffic light if I forget before I leave the house...without anyone getting off mind you.

[mkatz]

deilenberger mentioned that he had lowered his R1200R with a hyperpro shock setup.

I'm "inseam challenged" at 5'6", 30", 135 pounds and would like to be able to flatfoot a bike for a change... any caveats in using your approach? did you specify to the hyperpro rep a lowering of the bike? Any difficulties as a result with respect to lowering ground clearance and therefore toucihng down early? Do you hav a center stand mounted? modified for the reduced height? Did you modify your sidestand? If so how?

I'd appreciate your indulging me with a bit of advice. I'm about to return to riding after a few years off afer a "highside". I've owned several 'R bikes and enjoyed them all. I was considering seriously a lwoered F800ST untl i learned of people experiencing significant difficulies with the F800 series ABS

mark

[deilenberger]

deilenberger mentioned that he had lowered his R1200R with a hyperpro shock setup.

I'm "inseam challenged" at 5'6", 30", 135 pounds and would like to be able to flatfoot a bike for a change... any caveats in using your approach?

I'm breaking the questions into paragraphs since it LOTS EASIER to answer that way (hint!)

did you specify to the hyperpro rep a lowering of the bike?

Yes. 3/4" or ~20mm. That doesn't mean the shock are that much shorter - I wanted the seat height that much lower. You have more than 3" inseam (30" vs 27") on me - I'd think with a factory low seat the stock length shocks would work fine.

Any difficulties as a result with respect to lowering ground clearance and therefore toucihng down early?

No touchdown problems - but I'm not a 10/10ths rider. More like a 5/10's on an agressive day.

Do you hav a center stand mounted?

Yes

modified for the reduced height?

No. It's a bit harder to get up (why does that sound odd?) - but doable. I only centerstand in the garage - other than that it's on the sidestand.

Did you modify your sidestand? If so how?

No. Didn't need to.

I'd appreciate your indulging me with a bit of advice. I'm about to return to riding after a few years off afer a "highside". I've owned several 'R bikes and enjoyed them all. I was considering seriously a lwoered F800ST untl i learned of people experiencing significant difficulies with the F800 series ABS

mark

HTH - but if you have the R1200R - then ask the dealer to swap for a low seat. If not - when you take your pre-buy test ride (everyone who rides one buys one..) - ask them to put the low seat on.

The only disadvantage I've found with any lowered suspension (and I've done it on 4 bikes so far) is - you loose travel - so really big excursions can cause you to get bumped. Good damping adjustment helps minimize that problem.

[Handsome Jim]

Do any of you fellas know who sells Wilber shocks in tha US? Does anybody have any experience with them> Pros? Cons?

[Klink]

Do any of you fellas know who sells Wilber shocks in tha US? Does anybody have any experience with them> Pros? Cons?

I have just got back from a 200km (125 mile) ride on my R1200R, after fitting the Wilber 625/640 combo.

Since (a) I like to go around bends quickly, and (b) I don't like to get busted by the HWP, this means riding quickly on bumpy back roads.
I bought the suspension because I wasn't entirely happy with the standard (non-ESA) set up. I found it a little lacking in damping, particularly at the rear, where the whole crown wheel thingo is unsprung weight.

Initial impression, just riding away from the bike shop, is that the ride is "finer". That is to say, smoother, better controlled, but no softer than stock.

On some bumpy back roads, the suspension seems to be an improvement on stock, but I will have to ride my favourite bendy road (the Old Pacific Highway for locals) ASAP in order to be sure.

The units seem much better finished than the std pieces. Not bling, just well finished. The std rear shock shield will not fit, so budget for a hugger too.

The hydraulic pre-load adjuster fits onto the pillion footrest bracket just fine, but I wish they had provided a mount to put it in the same position as the original.

I have the standard or "comfort" spring, not the "strong" spring. It feels like the "comfort" has the same spring rate as stock. I weigh 100kg (220lb) and I'm very happy with these spring rates. You'd want to be a real pie-eater to go for the "strong" option. Or someone who take a pillion a lot.

All instructions are in German, but as adjustment is preload (federvorspannung) and re-bound damping (zugstufe) only, this isn't too hard to figure out.

I'm happy. More detail later, with pix if you want.