Techron

[towerworker]

Any thoughts or opinions on occasionally running Techron in our R's?

I used it years ago to clean up the fuel injection system on a Z28 and it worked wonders. Some motorcyclist friends swear by it also.

Wayne

[BlueBeak]

There's so much detergent in fuel these days that unless the bike
sat for a long time with unstabilized fuel in it, I can't imagine that
you'd need to run even more detergent. Particularly if the bike is
ridden on a regular basis, I'd say save your money.

[towerworker]

Ordinarily I would agree with you but I just had to deal with a carbon buildup on my r just last week. I don't run the piss out of it but I don't lug around either and still had a problem. I have always tried to wind it up on a regular basis but anyway...........

Have also run seafoam on a fairly regular basis too. Maybe not enough though. Who knows...........just trying to prevent all this from happening again.

Wayne

[BlueBeak]

But carbon buildup is a completely different thing, right?
That's typically from all the extra oil that gets burned during
the long break-in period that we have to endure on these
machines. Add to that fairly short trips that don't heat the
engine well, and that's where the carbon build-ups start.
Or am I mistaken?

[towerworker]

As I understand it much of the carbon build-up comes from unburned fuel.
Running too low rpm with too high throttle settings etc. Comes from too much "lugging" the engine. Maybe from poor quality fuel as well I suppose. Have always tried to run good quality gas but I guess that's hard to control as you don't know what supplier takes care of your local Shell, BP and so on. Some guys would say take it out and run it at 80+ for awhile------------tickets in VA are too expensive now!

Just trying to be proactive.

Wayne

[def38]

First of all, Techron and other distilate fuel system cleaners are not detergents. They are polar solvents. Techron is 50% Stoddard solvent, known to remove fuel system gum and deposits from varnished fuel system components. It can also help to clean up valve stems. But, it does not do very well on carbon deposits. Those deposits are a result of combustion of hydrocarbons such as oil and other poorly combusted fuel components. But, Techron does help by cleaning up injectors, the main reason to use it. Dirty injectors cause driveability problems.

As for carbon, heat help remove carbon deposits. Heat comes from operating the engine at normal loads at highway speeds. Some folks have added a bit of water to the fuel to "steam" the conbustion chambers clean. This works as well but, don't try it with your BMW..you'll rust any steel in the fuel system..A lengthy ride at highway speeds will help reduce carbon and improve performance.

[Biff's R]

I usually put some techron, or seafoam, about every 2-3k miles. I think the bike runs better after I do it, but I have no scientific proof.

[towerworker]

Def38---

Thanks for the good explanation. Makes very good sense to me and reminds me of many years ago when I was 19 working in an Oldsmobile garage as a "gopher". I remember using a GM brand top engine cleaner that we used in conjunction with a bottle of water. Slowly fed the cleaner thru the carb as the engine was running and then followed up with about 10 oz of water very slowly. Filled the lot with a hell of alot of smoke but supposedly cleaned out the combustion chamber. Don't reckon EPA would allow that kind of stuff now but back then we also vented Lord knows how much freon to the air plus asbestos dust blowing off drums and rotors with an air line. Times have changed!

I need to run mine a little harder and have plans to do just that this weekend!

Thanks!

Wayne

[def38]

Def38---

Thanks for the good explanation. Makes very good sense to me and reminds me of many years ago when I was 19 working in an Oldsmobile garage as a "gopher". I remember using a GM brand top engine cleaner that we used in conjunction with a bottle of water. Slowly fed the cleaner thru the carb as the engine was running and then followed up with about 10 oz of water very slowly. Filled the lot with a hell of alot of smoke but supposedly cleaned out the combustion chamber. Don't reckon EPA would allow that kind of stuff now but back then we also vented Lord knows how much freon to the air plus asbestos dust blowing off drums and rotors with an air line. Times have changed!

I need to run mine a little harder and have plans to do just that this weekend!

Thanks!

Wayne

Wayne,

The pistons (made by Mahle, a high quality, well known German automotive EOM) in the boxer engine provide for excellent skirt and ring lubrication (when was the last time you heard of a boxer needing pistons and rings?). However, remember, the oilhead is air/oil cooled. The exhaust valve stems and top compression ring lands run very hot, especially in the summer. The oil that occupies these places must continue to provide both cooling and lubrication without loss of viscosity...not an easy task.

For these reasons, oil choice is important. Oils that provide low ashing and contain plenty of dispersants can help keep things clean and carbon free.

The oilheads are sensitive to oil. If carbon buildup persists, you might want to consider another oil brand.

Also, from time to time, I run an engine oil additive to clean up the rings and valve stems. I have found Rislone to work well. Use it only infrequently however (about 1 cup added to the engine only if the oil window shows 1/2 sight glass or less). Then, change the oil at 500-1000 miles after adding the Rislone. Rislone contains some severely hydrotreated hydrocarbon stuff. It will clean up the engine well (it also keeps seals soft). I have used it to quiet lifters in automobiles and to help restore compression in engines where the rings had lost some sealing ability.

Other than that, ride normally and use some sustained highway speeds to keep your engine clean. Also, quality fuels from stations that turn over fuel frequently will help reduce combustion chamber deposits.

Good luck.

[shizzledizzbilly]

Back in May when I was changing out the plugs I happened to have a pen light nearby and decided to have a look at the top of the piston. It was absolutely caked on with carbon. Eventually I got around to posting here; the two suggestions were techron/seafoam and high speed/highway runs. So I picked up some techron (interestingly enough I run Chevron Supreme 90+% of the time), dumped a 3rd or so of the bottle in the tank, filled 'er up, and hit I-90 heading east. I-90 seemed ideally suited for the high speed run - 70MPH speed limit and 3,000+ feet of elevation gain (i.e. could sustain 80-85 easily up hill for max engine temp/pressure). I hadn't been out of town for more than 15-20 minutes when I was getting into the throttle to make a pass, and "BLLAAAAAAAAPP" came the noise from the right side, along with a little power loss. Maybe 1/2 - 3/4 second total. Pretty scary actually, I didn't know if she was about to blow - not a reassuring feeling zipping down the highway at 80+ . Fortunately though I had read a post by cyclerob in response to someone posting about this same behavior (i.e. short lived burst of noise and power loss) while rolling down the highway, and his theory was that it was a chunk of carbon blowing loose. Anyway, the bike kept running, the noise happened one more time on down the way a bit, and since then I've run the rest of the techron through the system and the bike has been running great - I have about 30k miles on the bike and definitely noticed an improvement in power. So long story short, I don't know if it was the techron, the highway run, or both, but the bike is definitely running much smoother now and I plan to do repeat this process every few thousand miles.

HTH,
Terry

[NAIAD]

Another nickel's worth of opinion ( 2 cent opinion, 3 cents worth of local, state and fed taxes).

Not exactly on your point/question about carbon buildup. But... I started using Chevron with Techron back in the early 90's upon the advice of a Ducati moto tech (formerly with the Fast by Ferraci team). He'd been inside a lot of motorcycle engines in his day, and had become personally convinced of running Chevron gas. Particularly in fuel injected vehicles. Top ends much cleaner, valves in better shape, and possibly better spark plug life as well.

Then a few years ago, took my F-150 ( I know, I know. It's not a motorcycle) in for a routine service job at 120K miles. And looking at the log book, discovered that the major service at 90K had NOT been done. (I was hospitalized at the time, my brother-in-law took it in for us. My bad for not checking. ) Consequently the plugs had not been changed, and the injection system had not been cleaned. The service manager told me that F-150's NEVER went 90K without the plugs being changed (usually around 75K) and for sure that the injection system had to be fouled. Well, guess what? He was wrong. I personally interviewed the mechanic post-service and he said the plugs looked pretty good, and the injection system probably could have gone another 20K without problems. Okay, was it just the Techron? Probably not, as I am one who worships at the altar of frequent oil/filter changes (4K) and watch my air filter very closely as well. But, this truck has never had any gas but Chevron in it's tank. (And, by the way, I formerly drove tanker trucks for ARCO).

This is all anecdotal of course, but I do really think it's worth a few extra pennies every time you fill your bike's tank, to use a high quality fuel. Believe me when I say I know where the cheaper stations get their gas, it's mostly rejected stuff from major distillers...

Ride Safe! BJ

[shizzledizzbilly]

Here's the thread with cyclerob's theory about carbon blowout I mentioned above:

http://r1150r.org/board/viewtopic.php?t=11017

-Terry

[dgates]

http://www.motorcycleperf.com/techtips/gasoline.htm

Too high octane rating can lead to carbon build-up?

[def38]

http://www.motorcycleperf.com/techtips/gasoline.htm

Too high octane rating can lead to carbon build-up?

If the compression ratio is low, this can happen. One heat range hotter plug will eliminate the carbon deposits.

Fuel from name brand stations that turn over fuel frequently. I prefer truck stops. They turn fuel and they keep their equipment in good order.