BMW R1200R R1150R/T F800 K1200R R1100R/T R1250R RnineT Message Board

Hey Guys,

My 04 RR with about 8K miles, has a noise. The noise occurs between about 3700 and 4300 RPM warmed-up. As long as I can remember, it has always done this...it has not gotten worse or better...so I generally just forget about it. But I am still curious what it is, or how I might silence it.

Its hard to describe -- something in between a low volume ticking and chattering. Its even hard to hear, but its definitely there...when I rode a loaner GS recently I did not hear it. When I brought to the shop (kind of in a noisy area), they did not even hear it -- of course it never does it when the doctor's there.

I was thinking this might be the left tensioner.

Can anyone describe in more detail what the old tensioner sounds like?

And is the sound limited to about the 4000 RPM range?

Thanks!

Also, since I have an 04, is there anyway to look-up by VIN or other mechanism, to determine if I have the improved tensioners or the old ones?

Do all 04s have the new tensioners?

Ed K wrote:Also, since I have an 04, is there anyway to look-up by VIN or other mechanism, to determine if I have the improved tensioners or the old ones?

Do all 04s have the new tensioners?

Ed...FWIW, I've read almost all the posts on this from here to advrider.org, and they all say the new tensioner has a 15mm bolt, the old has a 17mm.
My 04 R built June04 has a 15mm tensioner bolt, and there is no noise from the left cylinder.
I gotta assume the upgrades were installed at the factory at some point...

Hey thanks JM...

Well, checked, and I definitely have a 17mm tensioner...which from the info provided, is a old one.

Boxer and Captain...thanks again for your excellent write-ups and pictures, and also the references to AVID.

Guess no one is replacing the right one?

This may be a little disruptive, but when I removed my heads and had to remove the tensioners first, I didn't have to remove any of the TB parts. If you have 2 wobble extensions - - - I used the 6 inch plugged into the 2 inch, plugged into the 6 point 17mm socket. The monkey motion effectively provides universal joints in two places and it goes around the parts in the way that Boxer had to remove.

The wobble extensions square drive is beveled much like the ball socket allen wrenches. My left tensioner was tight enough to almost break the knecked down 3/8ths square drive, so get a good one. I have broken these extensions working on bikes.

To facilitate removing the heads, I just loosened the two airbox tube's bands and removed the 2 intake manifold bolts. When the heads come off you only need a tiny TB/Head seperation.

Cool...thanks CycleRob!

CycleRob...

It appears the technique that you are suggesting might work with a 3/8 ratchet, connected to a 3 inch straight extension, coupled to one 2 inch universal, then to the 17 mm socket. See pictures below.







Unfortunately, I only have a 1/2 inch drive 17mm socket, so could not try it out yet, except to get an approximation with 15 mm socket.

I assume you snaked it from between the paralever and the engine...as shown...is that correct?

Also, how did you get the old tensioner out? Do you use something like the paper clip method described in AVID? (He straightened a paper clip, then made a "V" hook at one end, opened it wide enough to push the "V" snugly into the tensioner cylinder, then gently lifted them both out of the engine.)

Finally what is you very experienced opinion about whether the right one should be replaced...or I just forget about it and leave it in...because works better than the left one (??)

THANKS CycleRob!! We are very fortunate to have a pro provide some advice and counsel.

I just finished the entire process on my 2000 R1100R. I just loosened the intake tube, slid it back, then, without disconnecting any thing else, I removed the throttle body flange bolts (using a ball end allen wrench) and moved the throttle body aside and replaced the tensioner. One note of concern. The new tensioner's spring pressure is considerably stronger than the old one. I hope it doesn’t cause increased wear on the cam chain guide.

Does anyone who has done this, notice a new start-up noise when the engine is cold?

It's only very brief and sounds like a whirring noise from that area. I'm thinking its the tensioner pressuring up by the oil which has gone to sleep and gotten sluggish.

Also I just read this over at the MOA forum. Paul Glaves writes a bench wrenching column for the ON and is pretty knowledgable when it comes to these bikes. This might answer a couple of questions.

* * * *

Actually, both the older and the newer cam chain tensioners are properly considered hydraulic cam chain tensioners. They all require oil pressure to tension the cam chain. The the left-side tensioner sits in the engine "upside down" and was prone to drain down. Then, on engine start it would take a few seconds for the tensioner to properly pressurize and a knocking sound from the chain slap could be heard. The original left and right side tensioners both had light positioning springs but the springs are far too weak to actually tension the chains.

BMW superceded the left side tensioner with a new one which is less prone to draining down. So the chain slap is minimized. As far as I know the right side tensioner was not superceded. The new one doesn't have a spring, but on the left side gravity holds the piston extended anyway: not so on the right side.

Paul Glaves

Yes, they are hydraulic, but the at rest spring pressure is still much greater than the original tensioner and "the new one doesn’t have a spring”(?).

and "the new one doesn’t have a spring”(?).

Yes, I noticed your quotation marks and question. I called Paul on the same thing over at the MOA site and just haven't heard back from him. It DOES have a spring, but it's inside the piston. I think maybe he's just saying it doesn't have the "external" separate spring.

And I'm not sure the internal spring serves the same purpose as the old one.

After installing the new tensioner, startup was quite. A very slight ticking from the left side till the tensioner pumped up-that's all.

Ed K,

The universal joint was the first thing I thought of but it's diameter was too fat for the tight quarters. The two wobble extensions together did the job. My left tensioner piston remained in the head when I removed the tensioner, but it literally shot out when I turned the engine. The opening valvespring pressure first makes the chain go slack, then the closing valve spring pressure quickly turns the cam, yanking the slack camchain tight all at once, and launching the tensioner's piston up and out of the hole. It wasn't intentional as I was finding TDC for cam removal, but it solved the very next problem just before I got to it.

Putting the tensioner back in requires strong fingers, good axial thread alignment and patience with the very tight quarters.

Overall, I was impressed with the aircraft like quality of materials and minimalist component design throughout the cylinderheads.

Thanks CycleRob...appreciate your counsel.

LEFT CAM CHAIN TENSIONER
I swapped out mine today in about 15 minutes. Haven't started the motor yet because I have the fuel tank off for some much needed battery maintenance.

All I did was:
1] Loosen the two hose clamps on the intake immediately aft of the left throttle body.
2] Remove the two allen bolts that hold the left throttle body to the cylinder head.
3] Pull the throttle body out - away from the place where it connects to the cylinder head.
4] Using an articulating 3/8 drive ratchet with a 17 mm socket, remove the offending can chain tensioner bolt.
5] Pull the protruding spring out.
6] Use a magnet to remove the stock cam tensioner.
7] Install the new tensioner, tensioner bolt (and crush washer).
8] Use a 15 mm socket to secure the new tensioner bolt. (Anybody know the torque spec?)
9] Reinstall left throttle body and secure the two intake clamps.

Needless to say, I'm anxious to fire her up to hear the difference!

BATTERY
I'd never serviced the stock lead acid battery on my R1150R - purchased 05/02 - because of the (seemingly) pain in the neck job of removing the fuel tank. It really wasn't difficult though. Rode till the tank was nearly empty, a few bolts, two vacuum lines, one electrical plug, and two fuel line quick disconnects - the tank was easily removed. The stock battery, as expected, had several cells that were pretty low on electrolyte and the positive terminal had lots of green corrosion. The battery is charging as I type - I'm hoping my recently ordered Odyssey 680 arrives by Thursday though so I don't have to reinstall the stock battery. Soaking the terminal in a Backing soda / water solution boiled the corrosion right off!

I needed to check on the battery because after 36,000 miles, it was starting to crank very slowly. As I said, the battery had never been serviced (not even on a trickle charger) since I purchased my Roadster nearly four years ago. I noticed a slight amount of corrosion to the left side of the metal plate the battery rests on - I'll clean and paint that tomorrow. Wow - there's lots of space where all that ABS gear would normally go! I might just slap my air compressor in there! I'll also use this as an opportunity to R&R the stock fuel filter. I'll be sure to lube the fuel line quck disconnects prior to re-connecting them. Hopefully the fuel tank re-installation will be no more than twice as "painful" as removal. I plan to ride Friday, so if the new battery hasn't arrived, the stock one goes back in.

Note: Apparently, Chicago BMW does not ship batteries. I ordered a new one when I ordered my cam tensioner at the beginning of December. When neither part arrived after several weeks, I attributed it to the Brown Santa Claus trucks being busy. When UPS finally delivered my cam tensioner a week ago, I figured the battery would be soon to follow. A call to Chi-town BMW today educated me regarding their battery shipping policy - they don't. They appologized for not emailing me. Oh well, it's the first problem I've had with them after hundreds of dollars worth of orders.

Thanks to my fellow Roadster riders at R1150R.org - I learned:
* of the cam chain tensioner issue
* the parts to order
* where to order them
* how to install the new tensioner
* what battery to order
* where to order the battery
* how to R&R the battery
* how to R&R the fuel filter

I cannot imagine owning my lovely Roadster without having the fantastic resource that is R1150R.org! You're a terrific bunch of folks! [/i]

Hey Boxer,
Excellent instructions. Will there be a away that I can refer to this further on down the road. Will it be in the maintenance forum?
Thanks....Vinny

Some how the part numbers in this area don't match the Chicago BMW site, here is what I got for the piston and Spring:

Piston 11311340592
Spring 11311335584

There is no available part for the cylinder unless this is the correct one: but shows as Housing. 11311340726

Web site I looked at:
http://www.maxbmwmotorcycles.com/fiche/ ... 000-022006