FAILED ABS Unit

[Mark]

This is not about the performance of the ABS system but more importantly possibly that fact that the system is dead.

Actually it is on my friends 2008 R12R and he had the warning light appear on the display saying there was a fault - and now having taken it to the service centre they are telling him it is dead and needs to be replaced.
AU$2,000 for the parts alone.

Needless to say he is not impressed.

Has anyone else had an ABS system fail and need such major rebuild?


Mark

[lynnboyd]

Mark,

I was just about to start a thread on this when I saw your post. I went for a short ride tonight and the Brake Failure light never went off. The tire pressure was fine. I stopped and restarted the engine and the light stayed on. The brakes seem to work fine.

Does anyone know of any potential causes other than failure of the unit that could be causing the warning light to stay on?

Lynn

[Ton1959]

Very often a brake fluid change ( not forgetting the brake fluid in the ABS unit) fixes the problem with faulty ABS units while dealers say that they need to be replaced.

[dbrick]

Should a fluid change not work, ModuleMasters may be able to rebuild it.
See this thread: http://www.bmwmoa.org/forum/showthread. ... ABS+repair

[hjsbmw]

Does anyone know of any potential causes other than failure of the unit that could be causing the warning light to stay on?

There are the catastrophic failures, and then there are other, more benign causes (sensor cables, dirty fluid, etc.). This is a case where a GS-911 is really handy to do the diagnose.

[moto-m]

The ABS has failed recently on my September 2006 R1200R.
When taken to the BMW dealer, their diagnostics say that the unit has failed - £1200 +.
The bike had covered 36,000 miles and had the brake fluid changed every year without fail.
I have a R1100R bought new in 1999 where the ABS still works after 67,000 miles (different system I know).
As I'm looking to trade the R1200R for a new bike, I'm very reluctant to buy BMW again - especially as I understand that ABS will now be standard on 2013 models.
I'm not impressed with current BMW quality nor their attitude to customer satisfaction.

Mike
Cheshire,UK

[deilenberger]

Mark,

I'm guessing you're not subscribed to the Internet BMW Riders mailing list.. but this was in a posting about a failed ABS unit tonight. I could ask Rob if the dealer has any SIB from BMW on this.. dunno if this would help in the Oz or not:

My wife's '07 RT had the warning light go off this past year, I finally
took it to the shop (100ish miles) and the co-owner informed that a batch
of ABS motors were bad. BMW paid for the part and I had to pay for the
labor. Some one out there is fixing them now, if I understand correctly.

Good Luck.
Respectfully,
Rob Lessen
Arma, KS

[Grey R]

I have the exact same issue. A meticulously maintained 2008 R12R with just over 8K miles and what the dealer says is a failed ABS pump. I contacted BMW of NA customer service and they said sorry but I am outta luck. I obviously told them how I felt and they said they would "document my dissatisfaction.". Am working with my local dealer to see if that have any leverage to get some reimbursement for what is obviously a more prevalent issue than what they would like to admit. Very unfortunate, especially for a company that touts engineering, reliability and SAFETY as key attributes.

[deilenberger]

Very unfortunate, especially for a company that touts engineering, reliability and SAFETY as key attributes.

I can't recall any ad by BMW (cars or bikes) in the past 5 years that mentions reliability.. engineering and safety, yup, but I think the reliability horse left the barn a long time ago..

[deilenberger]

BTW - just a heads up. The actual decision to offer good-will starts at the dealer level, and whatever the dealer suggests to BMW is rarely argued with. I do know people who have had good-will offerings on bikes long out of warranty. These people were considered by the dealer as being a "good" customer (service done at the dealer, bike bought at the dealer) and most importantly - a potential repeat customer.

Any warranty coverage is booked under marketing. The only reason to have it is to help sell new bikes. It offers no other benefit to the dealer (except possible shop charges when things are slow) and especially no other benefit to BMW.

If a good story gets around on warranty coverage, BMW figures that might sell some more bikes/cars. If the dealer goes to bat with BMW to cover some expense, that's because the dealer believes he stands to profit if he does. No employee of BMW ever got a raise for upping warranty costs to BMW - just the opposite. It's looked as an expense, and is considered part of the marketing expenses, right there with advertising, special-offers, discounts, etc.

BMW is a fiercely competitive capitalist company. You can expect them to do what they feel is in their best interest to make more money. The way to convince them to cover your bike when it's not contractually obligated is to demonstrate it's in their best interest (in making money, now or in the future) to make you happy. Anything else is simply deluding yourself. Companies have no morality, despite them now being people. The dealer is the key in making BMW understand why covering your issue may be in their best long term interest.

If the dealer tells you that BMW isn't going to offer an good-will offering, that's because the dealer didn't suggest it to BMW. When you contact customer service at BMW-Motorrad US, Motorrad simply backs up what the dealer has already decided. BMW has once in a great while responded to bad publicity by quietly taking care of a problem. They often do not want it known that they did because that would lead to everyone who feels they are owed something trying that tactic. If a dealer seems to be covering a lot of things with "good-will" or even having a significant number of warranty claims, items they submit for reimbursement are carefully looked at.. that helps keep the dealer from being Mr. Nice Guy to everyone who walks in the door.

YMMV - but in this case - not a lot. From some very informed sources..

PS: Announcing to them (or even in a forum thread, they do have people whose entire job is to monitor interwebz forums! Hi Guys and Gals!) that you'll never buy another BMW is a sure kiss'o'death for any chance of good-will coverage. Once they know they already lost you as a customer for future purchases, they have no marketing motivation to cover what's bothering you.

[slowtorque]

Deilenberger, now that's a dose of reality! Well said.

[Bill Stevenson]

Does anyone know the numbers on ABS failures for BMW motorcycles? It seems to me that this has not been a widespread problem at least up to recently. I am not sure if the latest ABS system is less reliable than previous iterations. Anecdotal story, my first ABS bike was a 1989 K100RS-ABS and my current R1200R, with 30k miles on it is the fifth. I usually trade when the bikes reach ~50k miles, so my cumulative experience is approaching ~250K. My 2008 R has the fourth generation ABS system. No failures yet in my experience, knock on wood. Just wondering if our beloved R-Rs are susceptible to ABS failures and if so why they are failing? Not sure. It might be useful to learn what exactly failed on each ABS equipped bike to see if there is a trend.

BTW, nice post Don.

Bill

[bmwk100]

Does anyone know the numbers on ABS failures for BMW motorcycles? It seems to me that this has not been a widespread problem at least up to recently. I am not sure if the latest ABS system is less reliable than previous iterations. Anecdotal story, my first ABS bike was a 1989 K100RS-ABS and my current R1200R, with 30k miles on it is the fifth. I usually trade when the bikes reach ~50k miles, so my cumulative experience is approaching ~250K. My 2008 R has the fourth generation ABS system. No failures yet in my experience, knock on wood. Just wondering if our beloved R-Rs are susceptible to ABS failures and if so why they are failing? Not sure. It might be useful to learn what exactly failed on each ABS equipped bike to see if there is a trend.

BTW, nice post Don.

Bill

I had to get an ABS computer replaced once on a 1992 K100RS. Otherwise, I have not heard that this is much of an issue.

[bmwk100]

I have the exact same issue. A meticulously maintained 2008 R12R with just over 8K miles and what the dealer says is a failed ABS pump. I contacted BMW of NA customer service and they said sorry but I am outta luck. I obviously told them how I felt and they said they would "document my dissatisfaction.". Am working with my local dealer to see if that have any leverage to get some reimbursement for what is obviously a more prevalent issue than what they would like to admit. Very unfortunate, especially for a company that touts engineering, reliability and SAFETY as key attributes.

First, your warranty is expired so why are you "dissatisfied". Second, as noted below, I have monitored many BMW sites and have ridden over 125K on BMW's. As previously stated, I had to replace a computer on a 1992 K100RS but I have not seen this issue with our R's. I do not see this as a "prevalent issue".

[deilenberger]

I have heard of a number of the latest ABS (which our bikes have) failing (im the "hexhead" moderator on the BMW-MOA forums.) Not endemic, but enough that I noticed it.

Dealers won't try to fix it - there is no benefit to them.. if they fix it and it fails again, you'd rightly expect them to back up the repair. That would come out of their pocket. By replacing the unit in it's entirety with a new one, you're automatically covered for 2 years under BMW parts warranty, and if the dealer installed the replacement, labor is also covered - all out of BMWs pocket.

I do recall reading on another forum (it might well be ADVRider or BMWSportTouring) that people have repaired the units themselves by disassembling the motor, and I believe cleaning the brush holders (or at least making certain the brushes in the motor move correctly.) Apparently some of them have brushes that bind up, failing to make contact with the commutator, leading to an error fault. This may be what BMW was referring to in the IBMWR post I quoted above. I also seem to recall some people were able to get their ABS system working (at least for a while) by bonking (tech-term) the motor on it with a wooden mallet or something similar. I suspect that breaks the brushes free at least for a while.. The motor is visible if you remove the airbox snorkel from the starboard side, so that might be a good thing to try - it might narrow down the failure mode.

A dealer won't try fixing this.. but I would. If someone gets their ABS replaced on your dime (well, a LOT of dimes) - please ask for the old part. By law in the US they have to give it to you if you paid for the replacement. There won't be a "core" charge on an ABS replacement part that is new. I'd like to disassemble one and see if I can spot what the problem is, and how to fix it - then document it in a DIY (probably for the MOA forums.)

There is also a company that rebuilds a lot of euro auto modules - ModuleMasters, who claims to be rebuilding some variations of BMW bike ABS systems. From what I saw in their listing on their website (and on Ebay) it doesn't appear to be the latest version that we have. I imagine they might be interested in learning how to fix one. Their cost for the system they do repair is $300 - a tiny fraction of the cost of a new one from BMW.

[hjsbmw]

I have heard of a number of the latest ABS (which our bikes have) failing (im the "hexhead" moderator on the BMW-MOA forums.) Not endemic, but enough that I noticed it.

I only read this forum, the MOA, and the GS911 forums, but yes, there was enough ABS failure action to notice within the last 1-2 months.

I do recall reading on another forum (it might well be ADVRider or BMWSportTouring) that people have repaired the units themselves by disassembling the motor, and I believe cleaning the brush holders (or at least making certain the brushes in the motor move correctly.)

I am pretty sure to have read about it on the GS911 forum including pics. Maybe that's what you are referring to?

I'd like to disassemble one and see if I can spot what the problem is, and how to fix it - then document it in a DIY (probably for the MOA forums.)

That is a great idea.

[deilenberger]

I only read this forum, the MOA, and the GS911 forums, but yes, there was enough ABS failure action to notice within the last 1-2 months.

I do recall reading on another forum (it might well be ADVRider or BMWSportTouring) that people have repaired the units themselves by disassembling the motor, and I believe cleaning the brush holders (or at least making certain the brushes in the motor move correctly.)

I am pretty sure to have read about it on the GS911 forum including pics. Maybe that's what you are referring to?

I'd like to disassemble one and see if I can spot what the problem is, and how to fix it - then document it in a DIY (probably for the MOA forums.)

That is a great idea.

Probably was the GS911 forum come to think of it.. Have to look it up..

[moto-m]

PS: Announcing to them (or even in a forum thread, they do have people whose entire job is to monitor interwebz forums! Hi Guys and Gals!) that you'll never buy another BMW is a sure kiss'o'death for any chance of good-will coverage. Once they know they already lost you as a customer for future purchases, they have no marketing motivation to cover what's bothering you.

Just to make things clear, with a bike nearly six years old I have no realistic expectation of any good will payment. What I do want is a new R1200R without a strong chance of finding myself in the same, unenviable situation of a failed ABS a few miles down the road. If BMW could own up to a batch of faulty ABS units then at least there could be a chance of obtaining a new machine without such worries. Of course, I have to accept a lower trade in value against a new machine than would have been the case had the ABS been working, but then this is BMW we're talking about, not Honda, Mercedes or Porsche, who I can personally attest to having a totally different approach to protecting their good name and reputation.

Mike

[celticus]

You can add my bike to the list of bikes (R1200R) with the afore mentioned failed ABS. I have spent the last 3 or 4 weekends trying to fix the problem but to no avail. I haven’t bought a new battery as suggested by a few yet but maybe when I spring for a new one the ABS will be fixed. The battery is 3 years old and starts the bike fine. It may seem odd that I haven’t taken it to the dealership yet. I guess I expect that to be too costly. The brakes work just fine just not ABS. I don’t know what I’ll do in the long run but it may be that I just put a spot of black electrical tape over the brake failure light. It is kind of a shame as I know the ABS has saved my bacon several times but I can’t say I’d go as far as to never own another bike without ABS. The Bike is an 07 with 34K miles. Lots of my riding buddies are buying Triumphs but I’d be hard pressed to give up my swell BMW luggage and Russell Day Long seat (The Wife loves it).
Mark

[GBag]

Yesterday I experienced the ABS warning light on as well as the asc lamp pulsing. Stopping and recycling didn't help. We made an hr long stop. Starting again the lights were on then 5min later they were out and all was "normal". My real interest is what exactly is wrong when the abs system " fails" does it just mean you now have brakes that work like a non abs bike or is there concern that the brake system could stop functioning? If it just means the brakes work like a non abs bike I'm certainly not going to waste 2K to get it "fixed" as it simply functions like every other bike I have ever ridden. If it means I have to worry about brakes failing to activate at all then tat is a matter for the safety bureau and the better business bureau. If anyone can enlighten me as to how the system fails it would be greatly appreciated.