Blip throttle when downshifting?

[Chumley]

I was having a conversation with a friend who is a long time high mileage rider the other day.

He noticed that I blipped the throttle when downshifting and said he didn't do it. I had never noticed it after all of these years and it came as a surprise. I can't say we ride at racing speeds but he is fast and smooth so never thought about.

I don't even know when I started doing it but I just can't imagine not trying to match engine and transmission gear speed when downshifting. When at "spirited" riding speeds where you brake and blip at the same time it is now a subconscious routine would be very hard to overcome.

The slower revving engines on my Harleys makes you think a little more and sometimes you get a chirp out of the rear end but I still do it. Now when I'm around some Harley folk I am not surprised that they don't equalize engine/transmission speed but others?

I understand slipper clutches but please don't tell me I am missing something and that people don't "blip" anymore.

Hmmm... is it really that big a deal?

[grwrockster]

I'm a committed life-long 'blipper' on every bike (will sometimes also do it in the car [yep - we mostly drive manual transmission stuff here in the uk], and on the rare occasions when I drive a 7.5 tonne lorry you need to 'double de-clutch' to be able to change down into lower gears and maintain momentum).

Actually, I think I internally cringe when I witness people making a dogs dinner out of clunking and crashing down the gears and lurching about, when a simple well-applied 'blip' makes everything so much smoother, cleaner and much more mechanically sympathetic. Safer and in better control IMO too.

I don't think I could ride without doing it now either - it's hard-wired into me and like you, I only think about it when I see someone not blipping.

[Rog(UK) - Yorkshire Dales]

Yes, I totally agree that one should blip the throttle when downshifting, in order to match the speed of the layshaft gear with that on the mainshaft. Be happy that all motorbikes (apart from my Guzzi Convert, which has a torque converter) have a sequential gearbox with straight-cut gears, which in the car world is usually only fitted to racing cars. Learn the tecnique so that it is second nature and feel smug that only motorcyclists (and one or two old car/lorry drivers) are able to do the same. It also makes me cringe whenever I see and hear someone going straight into a lower gear.

This thread has actually made me start wondering if there is a correlation between 'non throttle blipping' and gearbox spline failure. Certainly the heavy loading on the splines when changing gear can't be doing them much good. Thoughts?

Rog

[2wheels]

When I upgrade to 2011 model(from 2009), one of the many benefits was that engine pick up when 'blipping' down the gears is much more responsive.

And it's red...

[Ric]

Grew up doing this.....isn't it called "Double-Clutching" ???

[Chumley]

I could definitely see it as a cause for a variety of accelerated parts wear. From drivetrain to rear tire. Washing machine wear too..

I think "double clutching" is where you briefly put the gearbox in neutral before moving to the next gear (actually letting out the clutch in neutral and shifting out of neutral to next gear). I believe it was/is necessary in the non-syncro big rig gear boxes and earlier days in general. That's what I was told many years ago when I used the same term around a truck driver rider but maybe that has changed too.

It makes me wonder if some of what many of us learned in the days before so much automated assistance showed up is being lost. I was loaned an Infiniti G37 that did the really cool blips on downshift for the automatic transmission, spent a lot of time downshifting that day. Who teaches this throttle blip to newer riders? We are routinely told to leave the training to the certified schools. Do the schools teach it?

Where did you learn to do it?

[Rog(UK) - Yorkshire Dales]

Yes; I think I got it slightly wrong. Blipping the throttle with the clutch pulled in would only speed up the engine, not the layshaft.

My take on double declutching is:- 1. clutch lever in and shift into neutral; 2. clutch lever out and rev engine (which this time WOULD speed up th layshaft); 3. clutch lever in again and shift into lower gear; 4. clutch lever out. A similar process happens with the old cars and wagons when shifting UP, but this time the throttle is closed. I've never heard of double declutching as ! have described being carried out on a bike; only blipping the throttle with clutch pulled in.

Perfect that, then combine it, in a car, with 'heel and toeing' - when braking is carried out at the same time as changing gear! Slightly off topic, but I believe in days of yor, rally drivers practised left foot braking.

I learned throttle blipping from my brother in 1967 when he gave me my first bike - a BSA Bantam. Now that was a powerhouse..... maybe 5bhp?

Rog

[GSGeezer]

My 'new' bike is #934 80th. Not a quick revving bike. When shifting up or down I just increase or decrease the throttle opening slightly to match the difference between tranny and engine. It's a very small adjustment, and in my situation it is easier to match them than 'blipping' the throttle and hoping. Maybe it's just an age thing.

[grwrockster]

Rog is right about the 'double-declutching' technique i.e. shift to neutral, pop the clutch while revving the engine, then depress the clutch a 2nd time and then complete the shift to the next lower gear (on a manual 'H' pattern-type gearbox). There are more complicated transmissions e.g. with 'splitter' 'boxes, where there is a choice of 2 ratios in the final drive as well as the clusters in the gearbox (which effectively makes a 5-speed 'box a 10-speed) - but double-declutching is the same technique whatever.

You can't do this on a bike due to the sequential nature of the gearbox i.e. you can't shift to Neutral between gears (but as we know, 'blipping' basically achieves the same outcome for bikes). DD-ing is very necessary on older trucks with manual transmissions, and even older stuff where there is no synchromesh on the gears (I had a 1971 Fiat 500 for a while which had no synchromesh - even though it was a tiny car it refused to change-down without grinding if you didn't DD). A heavy truck manual transmission simply won't shift into a lower gear - either at all at any speed, or at lower speeds without either lots of grinding and crunching - unless you use this technique on downshifts (esp. on hills where you need to maximise both road speed and have to keep the revs up to maintain forward progress).

My folk's late 90's 7.5 tonne horse lorry gearbox (and all the stuff I drove as a teen in the early 80's) won't play at downshifting unless you double-declutch (not needed on upshifts although you do have to 'wait' for the engine revs to drop to near tickover to slot the next gear in cleanly - you can't rush the upchange like you can in a car. Also some older farm tractors - you can only (and then only just) shift gears (up or down) on the move by double-declutching.