BMW R1200R R1150R/T F800 K1200R R1100R/T R1250R RnineT Message Board

Ok, did it. And the short story is I would not use the quick disconnects again.
The details.
I have had the experience of breaking down in Lufkin, Tx at 6pm on a Sat with a blown water pump in a Lotus Elan; the local kid at the Shell station said, "Yuk, Yuk, Yuk, I'd say you got big trouble." Yes I did. I have had a broken water pump stopping me dead 3 times in a Volvo (worst car I ever owned)--Peaveley, Mo; Binghamton, NY; and 45 mi from home on US61. And a frozen thermostat in an MGb in Gonzales, La--I could have fixed that, but I was coming home from a Rolling Stones concert (early 70's) and I had "enjoyed" myself. Say no more.
I r e a l l y do not want to break down just outside of Podunk, La with a crippled Roadster, so I decide to switch out the rightly maligned OEM quick disconnects. I did not want to spring $80 for the Omegas, so I read with interest the reports of the Small Parts.com version. I ordered the single shutoff version, but they sent the double. Ok, fine by me.

I tested them--see first post and felt comfortable with the re-connectability. Actually I fell prey to the four most dangerous words in the English language: This Time It's Different.
Here is how the install went--pardon the newbie nature of the pics.
This is where the quick disconnects are--just behind this fairing.

To remove it you must remove the cover for the oil coolers--two screws on the bottom and then lift up.

The top is held in place by 2 pieces of plastic that engage two grommeted holes--just tease it up. You can see the 2 here.

Now you can remove the black cover/fairing--one screw and another plastic engage right in the center.

You are there. They are the two black connectors parallel to each other.

Gas will spill when you disconnect them--have a rag available to soak it up and prevent it from hitting any surface. This is the O-Ring that is mentioned in some threads--it can become dislodged resulting in a leak.


The BMW hose clamps are a bi-otch to remove, but I got them off easily (after fighting with other methods) by using the cutting disk on my dremel and cutting down on the "crown" of the clamp.

To replace the clamps you need to use Fuel Injector clamps; I got these and the hose pincher at Pep Boys. I am very glad I got the hose pinchers--they work well, they travel well, and they fit in a tight space.

The QD's are the same size as the OEMs

After removing the OEM clamp, removing the QD required a little twisting and pulling. Crushing the tubing did facilitate removal, but was not necessary on all 4connections. On removal of the second OEM disconnect, it broke off in my hand with not that much muscle. I feel it was ready to go though not yet symptomatic-but that's the way they are--fine until the strand you somewhere. I was happy to find this before disaster.
I installed the first one without too much trouble, but then disconnected it to go after the second one.
I installed the second one, clicked it together; went to connect the first one and IT WOULD NOT CONNECT. I eventually removed one limb of it and forced it together. Then I reconnected it.
While doing this I realized that what I had was a very fancy and expensive straight tubing, like many on this and other boards recommend instead of the QDs.
The completed project (leak free, btw.

So , would I do this again. Yes, I would definitely replace, but I'd use straight tubing. In fact, I will carry a couple of 3" lengths and a hose pincher just in case.
The vital stats on the bike--2004 with just under 18,000 miles. 12,000 mile service at dealer. 18k will be by me.

Oh, one last thing. The fuel injector clamps worked fine, but the screws are a little long and I had to be careful positioning them that their bare edges would not rub on , and possible through, something back in there

John

Nice one John...Good job..great pictures and report..

BMW should have had a recall to fix this..IMO

I wish I had done mine before I had a leak and the fuel made my nice clean engine all stained yellow and crappy looking.

The damage can not be undone.

DJ

Great post, thanks. A question for you. Do the quick disconnects allow you to disconnect with fuel still in the lines without having to pinch off the fuel line? If it doesn't, I don't really see any benefit to them at all.

Max Continuous wrote: Do the quick disconnects allow you to disconnect with fuel still in the lines without having to pinch off the fuel line?.

Yes, that is the whole point of them. But, if the "reconnect" is difficult to achieve, then that benefit of not needing a hose pincher is negated.
Having been through this and seeing how easy using a couple of straight connectors with a hose pincher would be makes me glad I didn't spring for the Omegas, even if they worked better.

Thanks for the kind words

I've been reading all the posts on this topic and have a thought. Happens every now and then.

Has anyone tried using silicon grease on the "O" rings & connectors? I've seen it recommended for protecting "O" rings in other applications. Seems to me it might ease the refit and maybe help reduce the swelling.

If no one else has tried it, maybe I'll give it a go. I need to make some change there. I have an '03 with 24k. I had the tank off a month or so ago with the stock connectors and didn't have a problem. Of course at that time I didn't know there was one!

Anyone have the parts they want to get rid of for a test??

5634

I no longer have any QD's; I just have a straight tube.

ProductUser

Great post John.

My experience with this was a bit different than yours however. I found that you can get the shroud that covers the QDs off by just removing the screw and playing around with it - I did not have to remove the oil cooler cover. Getting the QDs off was also easier for me since I had had the dealer replace all the crimp-type clamps with FI screw types when I went in for the fuel line recall. Finally, my replacement QDs mated together easily - much more smoothly than the plastic OEMs - and gave a reassuring "click" when properly seated (they were ones from Omega and I used a touch of Li grease on the o-rings).

I wonder if some of the problem you faced with the Small Parts QDs was related to the type of o-ring material? I've heard that Viton swells with exposure to oxygenated gasoline and that Buna-N is preferable.

I'll address a couple of the concerns.

I don't know where I'd put silicone in the small parts QD's. I do not see an O-ring, it must be inside of the female end. It is not on the male end as on the OEMs. Besides, that one was so hard to reconnect that making it slippery with silicone would, in my case have resulted in bleeding hands, scratched Roadster, and serious violations of at least two of the Ten Commandments. I'm thinking the "killing" one and the one about "name in vain."

The O-rings that are hiding within the QD's are listed on the Small Parts website as Buna-n

Let me put my learning experience and endeavor in another way. Today in a local hardware store I bought for $1.10 a 1 foot length of brass tubing. I will cut 2 three inch lengths and , along with a hose pinch carry them with me on trips, just in case I face the reconnect problem again. If I knew a week ago what I know now I would use straight tubing. If I felt that somehow that was a less elegant solution, unbefitting a BMW, I'd polish the tubing (in fact I still may).

John

Really great write up, John.

I too have installed the Small Parts QDs, but didn't have any problems putting them together (this may be because I started with the top QD, so I didn't need to disconnect the bottom).

Strangely, I've had no problems disconnecting and reconnecting the QDs since (I've disconnected them twice since installation). I've read about this trouble on ADVRider and it appears to happen to some and not others. I am, however, concerned that it might first appear on the side of the road, so I think your straight hose/pipe solution is worthwhile.

I did notice when playing around with the Small Part's QDs before installation that sometimes it seemed more difficult to connect them that others. They use the same o-ring (a Buna-N), so it must have something to do with their location.

<<don>>


I would try putting the grease on the male end where it would slide into the female connector more easily. Sounds familiar doesn't it? And if you get it on the outside it would get messy.

Just another thought as there have been so many threads and different concerns. There was a lot of talk about making sure you used the fuel injection fuel line and fuel injector hose clamps to make sure they didn't come apart or break (in the case of the fuel line). Has anyone using straight copper tubing had an issue with leaks or is anyone worried about it comming apart? The connectors all have "barbed" ends to help hold them in the fuel line.

Has anyone using straight copper tubing had an issue with leaks or is anyone worried about it coming apart? The connectors all have "barbed" ends to help hold them in the fuel line.

Good question....I'm looking for some straight pieces of tube to replace the dis-connects..but I'm looking for some tubes with those barbs on each end.

I'm sure they're out there..I have not really started looking yet..I'll let you know if I find any....There's a lot of pressure in those lines.

Some others here have just used straight tubes without any problems...but the barbed ones would give me better peace of mind.

DJ

I do not understand the choice for straight tubes or even the Small Parts QDs.

The quick disconnects do serve a useful purpose. The Roadster suffers from the design flaw of having to remove the fuel tank for a number of reasons, including accessing the battery, or changing the fuel filter. For example, if you ever add an electrical accessory, you may need to remove the tank to connect to the battery and to run your wires. The quick disconnects allow you to disconnect the fuel lines without dripping any fuel and without stressing the fuel lines.

First, regarding straight tubes, you would have to clamp the fuel line every time you want to remove the tank. This potentially can lead to cracks in the fuel line from the stress of clamping it repeatedly. You eliminate the potential for the plastic QDs failing, but you lose the convenience of the quick disconnect. In other words, it is a trade-off; a compromise.

Second, regarding the small parts metal QDs, why use something that is a known problem for a sufficient number of people? What good is a QD that does not fit? If it does not fit, why not return it?

IMHO, the only acceptable solutions are to 1) replace the factory QDs with something similar (e.g. from McMaster Carr) on a regular, preventive basis, or 2) replace the plastic QDs with acceptable quality metal ones (e.g. Omega).

This is an issue of both safety and convenience, so why compromise to save a few bucks for something very important? I had my own problems with these things (see link) -- it is a bad design -- and I am not going to have them again.

http://r1150r.org/board/viewtopic.php?t=6872&highlight=

i'll have to throw a +1 out there for the Omega QD's. I just installed a set on my bike, and feel much more comfortable with the reliability aspect. They are the same dimensions as the stock cheap plastic ones, but are made of chrome plated brass. I did add a little lubrication to the O-Rings when I installed them, just because. I like the aspect of the quick disconnects and see these as the part BMW should have used. They are a bit pricey, but if people on the board wanted, you could try and organize a group buy for discounts. I will say, make sure you use a hose line clamp when changing the QD's No staining, but alot of fuel ended up where it shouldn't have! A good douse with water kept the staining away.

Hey ET...you need to phone home... .....great pic..

DJ

I agree with your assessment, Bob, but in owning the bike for 12k miles and nearly 1.5 years, I have yet to remove the tank, though I lifted it up once. Repeated compression of the hoses might lead to cracking, but I don't see the need arising too often. It's all a compromise. I think my hoses might dry rot first.

Again, I do not disagree with you, but for my needs and riding, taking a chance on the smallparts product and then deciding to use straight tubing if necessary in the future makes sense.

And it might happen that I will be able to reconnect them so pinching will be moot.

John

I just replaced my ailing, almost 6 yr old WestCo battery with a PC-680. As I was re-plugging the 2nd QD together it squirted my forearm with gas. The male portion cracked !!! I did not manhandle it. It was brittle and fragile. What the F was BMW thinking !! Fuel at 53psi cannot safely be contained by such substandard parts as those.

Long story short . . . . QD's have to GO and right NOW!!

I first siphon drained all the fuel I could out of both sides of the tank before removing it. That way, fuel has to go UP to get OUT. I then searched in my junk for 2 straight pipes. Most of it was too fat a diameter. Then I found 2 salvaged long brass valvestems from a truck tube They were straight and over 3" long. I cut off the threaded part and drilled out the necked down ID at one end. Then, chucked them in a drill and spun them in 400 sandpaper to clean up the age and impart microfine friction barbs on the surface. Since I found out the small plastic high pressure fuel lines that disappear into the bike at the bottom are glossy smooth with NO barbs or bumps where the rubber hose contacts them, I wasn't worried about the brass lines with no barbs blowing off.

! WARNING !
You must be very careful twisting, bending, pulling or pushing on those small hard plastic lines when you try removing the old QD's. If you crack those lines you are looking at an expensive dealer R&R with a lengthy downtime. I found it safer and easier to remove the old QD with it's hose, from the lower plastic small diameter HP fuel line before attempting it's difficult-if-done-wrong removal from the rubber hose. Grab both ends of the rubber hose and push them together so the hose gets shorter and fatter. That breaks the sticky bond between the rubber and plastic interface. My hard inner plastic line was inserted about 2" inside the rubber hose. It came off easy because the clamp was at the very end of the rubber hose and fuel pressure "inflated" the hose up to the clamp, keeping it from bonding to the plastic line over it's almost 7 year age. Then you can hold the small hard line and gently turn and push it on further to break the bond of the rubber hose so you can then easily remove it in one low stress smooth turn-in-turn-out motion. You push it on first so you don't get that Chinese finger clamping action when a still stuck hose removal is first tried by pulling on it. I ended up replacing the lower hoses with longer ones and cutting the upper hoses just beyond the end of the QD's internal fitting to remove them. Even with the service dept's special push apart hose removal plier tool they were near impossible to remove without seriously gouging up the hose's exterior. Those barbs are brutally effective. Squeeze the hose and you'll find the QD's end and where to cut the rubber hose.

With the new and very powerful 8 yr Oddessy battery, I won't need to remove the fuel tank, only lift it slightly for an air filter R&R. If/when tank removal is necessary, it's drain tank and remove hose time. My hose removal pliers will work easy with the small space between hoses. The peace of mind I now have is wonderful. I gave those BMW QD's more credit than they deserve. No more worrying about that brittle plastic ticking timebomb between my ankles.

BTW, - - - WOW does that PC-680 spin the engine FAST on the starter!! Cold or hot, It starts immediately too.

Cyclerob says:

I just replaced my ailing, almost 6 yr old WestCo battery with a PC-680. As I was re-plugging the 2nd QD together it squirted my forearm with gas. The male portion cracked !!! I did not manhandle it. It was brittle and fragile. What the F was BMW thinking !! Fuel at 53psi cannot safely be contained by such substandard parts as those.

Long story short . . . . QD's have to GO and right NOW!!

I guess it's settled, I have another project in the fall when doing my pre-storage maintenace.

As I was re-plugging the 2nd QD together it squirted my forearm with gas. The male portion cracked !!! I did not manhandle it. It was brittle and fragile. What the F was BMW thinking !! Fuel at 53psi cannot safely be contained by such substandard parts as those.

Long story short . . . . QD's have to GO and right NOW!!

I agree 100%

I watched a very experienced BMW mechanic push my dis connects together and the same thing happeened..and he said it happens all the time.

DJ

I replaced my QD's months ago with the SParts type, brass. I don't understand the "test" and soak exercise. I simply installed the new QD's, connected them (easily), reinstalled the tank and got right back on the road. I used the QD's last month when I removed the tank and installed a new Oddessy battery - they disconnected easily, and reconnected easily.