Subaru owners? VW owners?

Post by **garylspolar** » Sat Dec 29, 2007 11:33 am

The new Impreza ia built on the Legacy frame, and has received many more upgrades. I'm thinking about getting one, when the lease is up on my 2005 1/2 Volkswagen Jetta. The symmetrical all wheel drive, among other things, is a great reason to buy a subaru.

I test drove an Impreza this past summer, and I was left unimpressed. The HP is about the same (exactly the same in 08) as a volkswagen Jetta, but the four speed automatic transmission on the 'ru left me wanting to get back into my much more refined, 6 speed automatic VW. Might end up going with the Jetta again, and the new diesel model is supposed to get 60mpg. Thoughts?

Post by **garylspolar** » Sat Dec 29, 2007 11:46 am

Looked on Edmunds, they had this to say:

In most respects, the 2008 Subaru Impreza is a better car. It's more accessible, refined and comfortable, just like Subaru wanted. But lost in the transformation was the Impreza's spunky personality. And without personality, the Impreza must fight fair against cars like the Mazda 3, Honda Civic, Nissan Sentra, Mitsubishi Lancer and Volkswagen Jetta, as well as against their associated performance variants. And in this situation, sleepy styling, behind-the-times transmissions and the lack of such tech-oriented features as Bluetooth, keyless ignition and a hard-drive-based navigation system are significant detriments, especially for a redesigned model. The Impreza has lost its mojo.

Post by **Shaman** » Sat Dec 29, 2007 1:16 pm

Get the STi or WRX (or current upgrade) versions.
My wife has an old impreza and nothing beats it in the snow, slush, and ice.
It lacks pick-up and go.. but they have the higher HP versions for that.

2008 IMPREZA WRX 5-Door
Automatic 4-speed with SPORTSHIFT
* 224-hp turbocharged SUBARU BOXER engine
* Vehicle Dynamics Control (VDC)
* Double wishbone rear suspension
* Rear spoiler
* 17 x 7.0-inch 10-spoke aluminum-alloy wheels
* Exhaust system with single chrome outlet
* L.E.D. taillights

Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price: $24,850
Optional equipment and other items:
/ LIGHTNING RED --
PREMIUM PACKAGE
AUTOMATIC 4-SPEED WITH SPORTSHIFT
ALL WEATHER FLOOR MATS
SEVERE WEATHER COMPANION
SPT VALVE STEM CAPS
SPT OIL FILLER CAP - BLUE
FRONT LICENSE PLATE BRACKET
REAR BUMPER CORNER MOLDING (2 PAIR)
BODY SIDE MOLDING
SPT BATTERY HOLD-DOWN - BLUE
CENTER ARMREST EXT
MARQUE PLATE WRX STAINLESS
DESTINATION AND DELIVERY
Total Suggested Retail Price $29,233

Post by **Biff's R** » Sat Dec 29, 2007 2:50 pm

I(wife's car) have an 05 1/2 Jetta, too. My brother has an 03 Forester and an 06 Outback. All three are good cars. I would wait and check out the VW diesels. If the milage is as good as they claim, then there should be a lot of people selling their hybrids for them.

Is the Imprezza as big as the Jetta? The 4 wheel drive would be nice, but you have the snow removal pros in Cleveland.

I really like our "New Jetta". Much better than the previous generation.

Post by **wncbmw** » Sat Dec 29, 2007 4:48 pm

I have a '96 Outback wagon, not an Impreza, so my opinion may not help but I have test driven a couple. I have never been too impressed by them as anything other than bare bones transportation and a snow vehicle. No WRXs driven!

That said, my old Subaru is by far the best snow vehicle I have ever had.

I would wait on the new Jetta diesel. Just read some on them and they sound impressive. A high MPG gas or diesel will beat a hybrid any day on cost to operate, if you factor in the higher cost to purchase.

And if you are looking for fun with decent mileage, we are really liking our new Mazda 3 5-door. A blast to drive and good mpg too!

Post by **iowabeakster** » Sat Dec 29, 2007 8:01 pm

I just don't get the whole VW thing. They are trendy and fashionable and all that. Their quality control seems abyssmal for the price.

I got a 17 year old Subaru that still gets driven in the snow. Unfortunately, it is driven a lot lately.

My 2 cents, you can't beat the Japanese for small cars.

Post by **wncbmw** » Sat Dec 29, 2007 8:23 pm

iowa - the QC thing is one thing that scared us off of VW. I liked the cars, even though they seem to cost more than the competition!

Post by **iowabeakster** » Sat Dec 29, 2007 8:31 pm

No hijack intended:

Vann,

Mazda 3 5-door, niiiice!

WileyRufus · Post by **WileyRufus** » Sat Dec 29, 2007 11:40 pm

I've got a '04 Jetta TDI and it has been flawless. I average 43 mpg overall, and up to 51 on the highway, usually with the fastest traffic. The engine is like a tractor with tons of torque at low RPMs. If I didn't plan on keeping it for another 8-10 years, I would definitely be in the market for the new engine model.
Jerry

R4R&R · Post by **R4R&R** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 3:51 pm

I've had an '02 Golf TDI, and '05 Passat wagon (1.8T) and currently have an '06 Jetta. All good cars but we didn't have them for very long (leases). I miss the TDI and wish I still had it. I doubt I'll get a new TDI since the high gas prices have more people paying attention to the better fuel economy, which will drive up retail prices.

I've never owned a Subaru, but have heard good things about them.

Post by **garylspolar** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 6:26 pm

wncbmw wrote:iowa - the QC thing is one thing that scared us off of VW. I liked the cars, even though they seem to cost more than the competition!

Quality control was an issue for a short while, when they were in the early stages of building certain cars in Mexico. They've had that worked out for a long time, and currently have taken the lead in resale (See article quoted below). I've never had issues with any Jetta's I've owned, and I've had 4 of them.

Check the pricing too. It's amazing how much stuff is standard in Jettas. While other car companies advertise a low price as bait, knowing you will not want the stripped down model, VW's are nicely equipped. And the 6 speed auto transmission rocks.

http://online.wsj.com/public/article/SB ... 92309.html

BigC · Post by **BigC** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 8:33 pm

We've got an '01 Forester and an '03 Impreza WRX. If you want power, you'll need to go with one of the turbo models. I've seen folks go easily over 100k on the stock turbo's with no problems. I don't know if that's an issue for you or not... Some folks don't like the complexity they add to a vehicle.

There is a difference between the AWD systems in the Subaru's depending on whether you get an auto or a manual. The auto's run more front wheel bias like ~80/20 unless slippage is sensed and then the center diff is locked electronically. The manual tranny runs 50/50 unless slippage is sensed and then it will mechanically lock the center diff. I like the manual as I think it keeps you out of trouble rather than letting you get into it in the first place.

Good article on the differences here: http://www.subaruspecialists.com/mainfr ... Drive.html

Here's a couple forums to check out if your interested:

http://www.scoobymods.com/ (I know Peaty, one of the moderators personally as he's only 30 minutes from me. Great guy with tons of knowledge)
http://forums.nasioc.com (childish a-holes but a great source for parts)
http://www.subaruforester.org (mature and well run board)

If I were in the market now, I'd be looking for a Forester XT. A better deal than the new WRX IMO. It should get within 2 or 3 mpg of the Impreza if you can keep the manifold pressure below zero. Good luck with that. Oh and world rally blue is the fastest color

Post by **Shaman** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 9:17 pm

BigC wrote: If I were in the market now, I'd be looking for a Forester XT.

But... but... Forester is a woman's car. Right?

Post by **wncbmw** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 9:27 pm

garyspolar - thanks for the info. I have to confess, if the new TDI was out, we would have looked hard at the Jettas. I loved the test drives! I know people who have had good service out of them. And a few who have not!

As it was, we are happy with what we got! Won't be looking for a while. Maybe the all-electrics will be out by the time I start looking again!

BigC · Post by **BigC** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 9:28 pm

Shaman wrote:
BigC wrote: If I were in the market now, I'd be looking for a Forester XT.
But... but... Forester is a woman's car. Right?

Heh, go drive one (an FXT)...or better yet, find a buddy that has one on stage 2. 100mph comes up fairly quickly

I don't think they've scheduled any yet for 2008 but if anyone is within an hour of a Subaru Challenge, I highly advise the trip: http://www.subaruchallenge.com/ Any Subaru can enter but it's ONLY for Subaru's.

Post by **rdsmith3** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 9:16 am

wncbmw wrote:I have a '96 Outback wagon, not an Impreza, so my opinion may not help but I have test driven a couple. I have never been too impressed by them as anything other than bare bones transportation and a snow vehicle. No WRXs driven!

That said, my old Subaru is by far the best snow vehicle I have ever had.

I also had a '96 Outback wagon. It was the second best snow vehicle I have owned (Audi's are better, but I digress).

IMO, Subaru's are reasonably well built but they always seem to have some bizarre styling. They just cannot make a good looking vehicle. Most Japanese manufacturers make either bland/neutral looking vehicles, or well styled ones. Subaru stands out as making ugly ones, but style is subjective.

If you want reliability and AWD I would vote for the Subaru. If you want more fun, I would go with the VW. I have owned both over the last 30 years of driving.

Post by **wncbmw** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 1:50 pm

It was the second best snow vehicle I have owned (Audi's are better, but I digress).

At twice the price!

Of course, the Audi would have certain other advantages over the Subaru I would imagine!

R4R&R · Post by **R4R&R** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 3:09 pm

wncbmw wrote:Of course, the Audi would have certain other advantages over the Subaru I would imagine!

Yeah, twice the maintenance costs!

Post by **garylspolar** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 6:19 pm

I just test drove a Forester!

I think the Subaru's are less than aesthetically appealing too, but they do some things really well. Reminds me of this girl I used to date. Not the prettiest girl I'd ever known, but she had some skills.

I did not drive the XT model, but I am looking forward to it. The non XT model, 5-speed manual, lot's of toys, was a car I'd be happy to own. I'm sure the XT will be even better. I'll go for a test drive in that one the next time I get a chance.

I'll be spending most of my time driving the Forester, not looking at it from the outside. Owners seem to be a passionate group, I like that.

BigC · Post by **BigC** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 8:23 pm

I like your choice of a manual

The Forester is very versatile and as you mentioned has quite a few creature comforts. If you go with the XT model, I've heard there's nothing quite like seeling the look on someones face when they get stomped by a wagon

You are looking at new models right? I'd be careful about buying a used FXT with a 5 spd. If you were looking at auto's I think you'd be fairly safe there. Enthusiasts typically don't buy auto's...