The 33k km tranny shaft . . .again!

[telliott]

It's right that BMW owned up to the repair, but until the shortblock and transmission cases are replaced, this is going to happen again and we know just about when.

Absoutly right on. BMW had a bad batch of K75's hit in the US that were having the same problem. BMW blamed it on the way they were anchored down for shipping and said that it caused the bell housing to warp, taking the shaft out of allignment. I don't know if that was true, lots of opinions on both sides of that. But it took BMW a long time to own up but they did start replacing parts.

Get BMW US involved and go for the real fix. Luck of the draw you got a bad one. There is another thread on the ibmwr e-mail forum, [email protected], on these problems. Lots of talk about manufacturing, % of acceptable failures, etc. But if yours is wrong it doesn't matter if BMW has a 99.9% manufacturing quality record. (And they don't.)

Let us know what happens. Wish there was some way for all of us to help those who have gotten stuck with the rotten apple.

[sweatmark]

A friend with R1150RT has experienced three spline failures, at intervals similar to the 33k km (20k miles) described above. Seems this problem is legion amongst the RT crowd.

ADV Rider and SportTouring sites may be searched for additional information.

[tor1150r]

Thanks for the input guys. I went to the dealer this morning armed with my camera (pix should be below if I did this right). So as of today I believe they have the go-ahead to fix the bike under warranty. The failed parts are the same as those that failed last June. They (dealer) are running the possible cause by the head techs at BMW Canada & US as they think the cause is a mis-aligned front transmission plate. I don't know the anatomy of the bike, but apparently there's a plate somewhere in the trans. housing?

Interesting thing about the failed parts. Bone dry. They thought this was odd, considering there is no evidence of leakage on the bike, nor are there any signs of any kind of leakage in my garage (I do a walk-around before each ride, and look for spots on the floor. None).

I expect the difinitive this week. The fix and the cause. Will post with the verdicts.

[boxermania]

tor1150r

I copied your pics and blew them up. I found something very interesting.

When you look at the tranny input shaft you see that it is highly worn closer to the transmission, as a matter of fact you can even see that the tooth crown has thinned significantly.

Now, If we assume that the shaft and the clutch disk gear teeth have a good fit between them, there is no reason for that type of wear to exist. What I mean is that the wear should be the same from the front to the rear of the tooth. Also notice on the front of the transmission the wear under the Getrag stamping, I don't know what touched there but whatever it was was not true to the input shaft centerline.

The following are my thoughts on what lead to the failure

1) The clutch disk hub material is inferior in metallurgy than the material of the input shaft.
2) There has to be a front to rear clearance diference between the shaft and the hub to lead to the wear shown on the input shaft.

Therefore the root cause of the failure:

Due to excessive, read inconsistent clearance, accross the contact surfaces of the clutch disk hub and the input shaft, the clutch disk, while being operated is "rocking" about the end closest to the transmission.

This rocking over time increases the clearance between the teeth and slowly but surely starts "grinding" the teeth on the disk hub (from the tranny end towards the engine). This process repeats itself until the hub teeth get reduced in size to the point where they can no longer carry the load (torque) and all the teeth in the hub break/grind off.

I would ask the dealer for the old disc and the input shaft, get them to me, so I can take a look under "controlled conditions" and see if anything else surfaces. I'll even send them to CycleRob for his evaluation.

Last but not least, I have to assume that the BMW dealer is going to do little more than swap the parts out. For your protection, insure that the parts carry a two year warranty and make absolutely sure that you run the next 33K kms inside that period. Otherwise it is time to sell the bike......

What can I say.....Good luck.

[CanberraDJ]

My 2001 R1150R has just had exactly this damage repaired. 30500km on the clock, serviced by the dealer, but clearly well out of warranty. I'm in the same boat as several others, wondering if I should sell my precious R and make it someone else's problem to deal with.

So a quick question - has anyone heard of a first fix to a clutch spline failure being the last? I mean, are there any happy stories, that might make me believe that my AUS$2300 fix will be the last?

As an extra kick in the guts, during the repair a final drive bearing was found to be notchy, and the FD was leaking a small amount of oil. Yet another $400 to add to my horrendous tally. Those new R1200GS' are sure looking sweet right now...

[Arbee]

It seems the way forward may be to go backwards

R60, R75, R80 all very good bikes...

Anyone ?

R1100R deliberately left off in case of perceived bias...

[Sunbeemer]

The rubbed cover suggests something is not turning true in the bell-housing for sure! Could inconsistent spring pressure in the pressure-plate/diaphram cause this kind of wear?

BTW, I remember seeing a picture of splines that looked like yours on the BMWMOA website (I think it was) last year. It was a quiz to see if anybody could guess what caused it...don't know if anybody did though. Anybody here know?

[tor1150r]

There was another post related this this, and I posted teh results there.
BMW replaced everything. They replaced all clutch plates and shaft bearings as well (bearings that were not replaced during the 1st re-build at 33k km).

The scuff/rub mark on the inside of the housing is actually a grease smear. I went to feel it while at the dealer and discovered it them. It wiped right off. There is no wear inside the housing.

They still do not know the cause, but I now have a 33k km warranty on this repair.

[dwayne]

There was another post related this this, and I posted teh results there.
BMW replaced everything. They replaced all clutch plates and shaft bearings as well (bearings that were not replaced during the 1st re-build at 33k km).

The scuff/rub mark on the inside of the housing is actually a grease smear. I went to feel it while at the dealer and discovered it them. It wiped right off. There is no wear inside the housing.

They still do not know the cause, but I now have a 33k km warranty on this repair.

Can I ask you, is this BMWofT, or Open R_BMW in Newmarket?

[tor1150r]

BMW Toronto.

Not too pleased with their service over the last year, although they fixed the clutch failure. Their just too convenient at 6 km from my house.

I'll go elsewhere in the spring. Was actually looking at a KTM today.

[Sunbeemer]

The scuff/rub mark on the inside of the housing is actually a grease smear

Ah ha! So is that where the spline lube went?
Did they replace the pressure plate/diaphram too, then?

Sounds like you're good to go for another 33kkm!

[tor1150r]

They replaced all the plates, shaft and bearings.
Still weary...I doubt I'll keep it for another 30k kms.

I just found out BMW released the F800GS...I suppose I'll see it at the bike show in Jan 08, here in Toronto. That may be my next ride.

[dwayne]

BMW Toronto.

Not too pleased with their service over the last year, although they fixed the clutch failure. Their just too convenient at 6 km from my house.

I'll go elsewhere in the spring. Was actually looking at a KTM today.

I've actually been thinking of switching to the Triumph Sprint ST, pretty damn nice bike.

[frbank6]

I've paid attention to these discussions about shafts and seals, and from the perspective of a first-time bike owner, if my R experiences any of these kind of failures, it will be my last. I bought a BMW because of the reputation for quality. It shouldn't take Yoda to design a reliable one, and if mine proves unreliable, I might as well change brands, too.

I'm with you, dwayne...those Triumphs are mighty nice.

[dwayne]

They replaced all the plates, shaft and bearings.
Still weary...I doubt I'll keep it for another 30k kms.

I just found out BMW released the F800GS...I suppose I'll see it at the bike show in Jan 08, here in Toronto. That may be my next ride.

I was looking at the F800GS on the BMW Motorrad international site. The seat hight is 900mm !!!! Ummmm, I'm really getting worried, are Germans really that much taller

[Paul Mihalka]

I work at a BMW dealer. About two years ago my '02 R1150R had the same kind of clutch spline failure, at 29.000 miles, way too early for normal wear. Between the shop technicians, myself, and kind of quietly the BMWNA area tech rep. we agreed that just replacing clutch and shaft is not a long term solution. Again quietly and without really saying so the BMWNA guy agreed to help in installing a whole new gear box. The bike was over a year out of warranty, I was not the first owner, but BMW agreed to cover 60% of the parts. My biggest expense was getting the bike and myself home from Arkansas to Maryland in a UHaul. About $1.400 between truck and gas. I had the bike to 76.000 miles with no new problems, shifting better than any time before the repair.

[telliott]

So do you think that BMW would "quietly" do this for the average owner?? I'd say that working for a dealership got you fixed right.

BMW should be doing this for all of the bikes having these problems. But helping you "quietly" is their response. They keep things "quiet" so they don't have to help all of those with the same problems. From what I read on here and other boards, they haven't been that cooperative with others.