Replacing my 1150R

Inspired by CycleRob, this section is devoted to all flavors of the F800.

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AirForceDirt
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Replacing my 1150R

Post by AirForceDirt »

Okay gents, its time to come out and say it. I'm selling the beast (my 04 r1150r) and lookign very hard at replacing it with an F800ST. I've heard good and bad about this bike but since I've never ridden the ST, just the S, I'll pose this question to those of you in the know:

I'm still young, flexible, and stupid, but I'm 6'2", skinny, and wondering if this bike will be uncomfortable to ride long distances. I'm on my bike nearly every day, unless I HAVE to carry something that I can't strap to the bike. The 1150R riding position never bothered me, though the factory seat got to me after awhile; but how are the ergos on the F800 compared to the 1150 when used for touring, and riding through stop and go traffic and such not?
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Re: Replacing my 1150R

Post by CycleRob »

"The 1150R riding position never bothered me, though the factory seat got to me after awhile; but how are the ergos on the F800 compared to the 1150 when used for touring, and riding through stop and go traffic and such not?"
___________________________________

The seat on my F800ST bothers me less after 1 hour than the 1150R's seat did, maybe because the seat is different or I am sitting less upright. You're still better to stop once per hour just to "stretch your legs", a rule that should apply to using even the most comfortable car seat.
Initially I thought I would need barbacks to get a more upright seating position, but after riding it a while the new lean over seemed to have been minimized by just hugging the "tank", with my arms straight out. Presto . . . I'm almost upright. Being 6'2" your longer arms may put you upright. Also, the F800S model you rode has really low bars . . . and that's prolly why it did not sell well, being a minimalist standard style bike with sportbike handlebars. What were they thinking??

In stop-n-go traffic The ST's light curb weight, light clutch pull and precise EFI work together so well that you can concentrate on just about anything else. It's lightweight handling, unlike the R1150R, makes it less dramatic to do low speed maneuvers. The simple 1 component ABS system also is NOT linked front/rear, making it always predictable. As a touring bike, any cruising speed is OK but 70+MPH against headwinds the airbox intake roar may require earplugs. Wind protection is good. It will also get near/over (depending on rider weight/size and if sidecases are on) 55 MPG cruising over 75 MPH, unless you're a lawless maniac.

The Good:
--It will not overheat in traffic.
--There is no "tip-over-torque" reaction if you hit the throttle in Neutral.
--It warms up quickly, attaining full engine operating temp within 2--4 miles, even in Winter.
--It is virtually vibration free after break-in.
--The exhaust note is pleasant and loud enough to remain stock. No more sewing machine sounds.
--The styling is classy modern. The engineering is next gen, high tech, light weight minimalist. The front wheel spokes+disk mounting is exotic.
--Engine power band is sportbike thrilling.
--The STD instrumentation includes: Fuel and Engine Temp bar graphs, 2 tripmeters, Bright Flashing RedLine/Shift light, Digital Timer/StopWatch and (with a GS911 it is programmable) a time/mileage maintenance reminder.
--Permanent shiny metal, easy to access tire valve stems are stubby, screw into a front wheel spoke and the rear wheel rim.
--With easy riding it routinely gets 58--72 MPG (my actuals) on Regular grade (Chevron/Texaco) gasoline, usually 64--66. Those phenomenal MPG's are any high performance bike's most surprising/welcome asset.
--It requires less frequent 12K mile valve adjustments, with often no adjustment required for 3 clearance checks totalling 36,000 miles. Has less expensive routine maintenance: NO scheduled TB synch, No fuses, No separate Transmission and FD gear oils.
--The easily accessible clutch parts, including the cable release cam, release bearing and clutch hub/basket roller bearings all run in the engine oil.
--The throttle response and steady state smoothness is absolutely flawless whenever the engine is running. :shock:
--You NEVER have to add oil between changes, even during the break-in. I no longer check it.
--Always (quietly!) starts after 3 or 4 compression strokes, computer controlled idles perfect whatever the ambient temps are and sounds great doing so.
--The starter makes a low whirring sound of precision fine tooth gears -not- that explosive big gear mash roar that can/will scare close bystanders.
--On Hi beam the low beam still stays on, giving you 2x the lighting area coverage.
--The whole (Hi/Low) headlight assembly dips down with a small "flip" lever to compensate for the passenger's weight -AND- You can also quickly adjust the height of the beam with your thumb and index finger on the knurled knob in the middle of that flip lever. =D> No Tools needed!
--The rear brake caliper stays mounted/undisturbed when you remove the rear wheel's 5 small/short Torx head lug bolts.
--Belt drive is clean, quiet, lightweight, efficient, zero maintenance and absolutely lash free.
--Narrow bike width is less greedy with garage space.
--Maintenance free battery under tank panel.
--Plastic fuel tank captured by the rear frame, under the seat is never removed.
--Right rear panel flip fuelcap is pretty cool looking by its' unconventional location and easy to fill if you use a tankbag on the side or centerstand.
--Digital ignition key makes bike useless if stolen and it cannot be started without it.
--Luckily, because of the 2 bulb high beam and multi lens reflectors, extra lights are not really needed.
--It's an excellent cold weather ride!
--With Metzeler Z-6 Interact tires and simple front suspension upgrades it is a fun filled, invincible racebike.

The Bad:
--There is almost zero room under the seat. :oops: :cry: [-(
--MSRP is kind'a steep for an 800cc sport touring bike.
--BMW side cases, IMO, suck. Too wide, sorta ugly, clumsy operation and too expensive. A $118 Givi tail trunk solved that for me, in retirement.
--Large fuel filter inside fuel tank requires a $pecial tool, which I purchased after overcoming the BMW dealer's refusal to sell it to me, or a creative tool invention to remove/replace the top threaded ring. AFAIK, NO ONE has ever mentioned the fuel filter needs to be replaced, but it does. :-k
--No tool kit, just a phillips/Torx screwdriver snapped into the seat's underside that remove the body panels.
--The runs-in-oil permanent magnet alternator has 400Watts, the R1150R had a powerful, super reliable, solid state excited field, car type external 700W alternator.
--Fork dive under braking and softness in corners noticeable after years of acclimation to riding the TeleLever Boxer. I have adapted to what was normal for my 11 previous bikes.
--The rearward located centerstand pivot does not balance the bike, so a rear rack 38lb counterweight or (less safe) engine jack is needed for front wheel removal.
--Changing 2 spark plugs requires at least 26 bodywork screws for 3 body panels + 2 mirrors, and 2connectors+4hoses+2clamps+2StikCoils associated with the battery and airbox to be removed for access. #-o [-(
--A valve adjustment requires removals the same as for sparkplugs + the lower panels and the radiator unbolted/moved away. When shims are needed you'll need someone experienced in performing camshaft removal/installation for shim changes -or- a trip to the BMW dealer.

That's it. It's so good that I'm completely satisfied spending the $9k "upgrade" and because of the way I ride don't even think about ever going back to a heavy, at home cruising 75MPH Boxer motored bike again.

EDIT: For fuel filter, pump removal tool and enhanced updates.
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Last edited by CycleRob on Wed Oct 30, 2019 3:08 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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AirForceDirt
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Re: Replacing my 1150R

Post by AirForceDirt »

My biggest worry is the front suspension. I've heard some people griping about brake dive, but I worry more about the difference between the roadster's front end and the more 'standard' setup of the F800. I've been riding the boxer exclusively for two years now, and I'm a bit of a crazy on the twisties, but i don't want to get in a trick because the front end is less forgiving. I know there will be a learning curve, as I get used to it, but how long does that take to get used to? Luckily, we've got one of the best sport bike suspension shops here in Tucson, not far from the base, so i don't worry about getting it tweaked if I need anything. The weight is a big upside, as I get tired of lugging the 500lbs of the roadster around.
Is there a noticeable difference in the torque output?
I hate top cases; well, the big 'motorcycle' ones that everyone makes. I've opted for a pelican case on the R, and have a slightly larger one standing by for the ST, but what other luggage options will be close to the capacity of the 1150's OEM bags (without going soft-sided)?
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Re: Replacing my 1150R

Post by sweatmark »

My biggest worry is the front suspension. I've heard some people griping about brake dive, but I worry more about the difference between the roadster's front end and the more 'standard' setup of the F800.
Don't worry.
1. My wife's F800S has stock forks (so far), and they're not bad at all in contrast to the web comments I'd found prior to purchase. I'm 250+lb and fond of aggressive front wheel braking when conditions allow - the OE setup is not so soft that the forks use up available travel on mountain roads. I rode the F up to Redmond last summer for the BMWMOA Rally, and found my favorite road (in places quite bumpy, otherwise smooth sweepers) well suited for the F800.
2. The difference between Telelever and conventional forks will be noticeable for transition from R1150R to F800. But it's certainly not a bad transition! For sporty riding, I strongly prefer conventional forks if the setup's right, and I'd choose my Buell's custom-tuned Showas every time for mountain roads or trackdays. Until I ride the F800 at a trackday, I'll have to reserve comment on 8/10+ riding, but anticipate a good result. Loaded up with gear and heavy bike, the Telelever is the better front suspension option for most conditions, which is one reason I would never sell my Rockster.
Is there a noticeable difference in the torque output?
Yes - R1150 motor has more torque, but the F800 has so much more top end flexibility you'll forgive the little parallel twin for its shortcomings.
...what other luggage options will be close to the capacity of the 1150's OEM bags?
None I can think of. The F800S/ST is just smaller than R1150R (eg. rear subframe), which is great where weight is concerned, but a challenge for hauling gear.
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dgates
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Re: Replacing my 1150R

Post by dgates »

I sold my R1150R "as is" just over a year ago after a spline shaft failure. I bought the F800ST mostly due to the praises of Cycle Rob. I have 12K miles on it now and really like the bike. Much easier to ride (light and nimble) and the 800 motor has more than enough power and torque.

I just had the forks serviced last weeks by a local suspension shop in the Seattle area, KFG Racing (KFG =Kung Fu Grip). Seriously. I wanted to get a heavier spring for my weight (195#)and the gold valve emulator kit from Race Tech. Barry at KFG felt he could modify the forks without the springs or valve kit. From what he told me, he used heavier oil and welded closed some of the holes in the dampening rod. There is no more front end dive at all and the bike tracks the corner like it is on rails.
This weekend I am heading out to Eastern Oregon for a 4 day ride with a group and I should be able to put her through her paces then.
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Re: Replacing my 1150R

Post by CycleRob »

dgates wrote:I wanted to get a heavier spring for my weight (195#) and the gold valve emulator kit from Race Tech. Barry at KFG felt he could modify the forks without the springs or valve kit. From what he told me, he used heavier oil and welded closed some of the holes in the dampening rod.

The difference between that type of mod and the Gold Valves (GV) is in the degree of high speed compression damping. The welded closed hole still uses the non adjustable stock high speed compression blow-off mechanism. The GV installation kit requires extra holes be drilled in the damper rod to disable the stock damping system so that the GVs fully control it from then on. The GV has a high flow rate, high pressure blow-off check valve that allows large bumps to be soaked up without launching you out of the seat, while still correctly flow orifice controlling the minute road bumps. The GVs also provide bolt-turn adjustability for the blow-off valve pressure desired, depending on the intended street, touring, or race mission of the bike.

Your 195# weight does require heavier fork springs. He may have substituted a slightly higher fork oil level to prevent bottoming, but that cannot fully emulate a stronger fork spring and it will limit full suspension travel on full compression. My 155# weight did not require a spring change, but 15W fork oil was needed to obtain the proper front fork rebound rate, which is by cost containing design, mechanically non adjustable. Once the GV installation is dialed in by changing the fork tube installed height, preload spacer length and fork oil viscosity, the handling is elevated all the way to "full confidence" under most every extreme cornering condition. To my great surprise, it was invincible while extreme cornering in cool weather thru those insidious tar snakes, poured to seal road surface cracks.
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sweatmark
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Re: Replacing my 1150R

Post by sweatmark »

Good info Rob.

My only complaint with the F800 series is the antique damping rod fork. For the purchase cost and intended use (not the GS model and off-road riding), the F800S/ST/R bikes should be equipped with "modern" fully adjustable USD forks. BWM really went cheap with the old right-side-up forks and leaky seals.
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Clem
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Re: Replacing my 1150R

Post by Clem »

Most comments have addressed the stock fork shortcomings in detail.
The strengths of the telelever have also been covered.

Two points not yet mentioned.
1. Superior engine braking of the big boxer engines.
Braking isn't even necessary in many normal situations.
2. False neutral between 5th & 6th gear on the F800.
More of an aggravation than a deal breaker for some.
IMHO


The biggest merit of the F800 is the excellent mileage. WOW!
At it's worst fuel mileage, the F800 gets about the best that the Roadster can achieve.
Don't be mistaken. The F800's performance ain't no slouch.

Front end stability, more torque, more luggage & electrical capacity, but with more heft.....R wins.
Lighter weight, Extremely fuel efficient, capable and more user friendly.....F takes the blue ribbons.

They are both EXCELLENT bikes.
You won't lose with either one.
I love them both dearly.

If you are only going to have just 1 vehicle,
one needs to clearly know what your NEEDS are
and accept the compromises.
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Woland
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Re: Replacing my 1150R

Post by Woland »

I had a F800ST prior to my R1200R. Main reason I changed bikes was comfort which I found lacking for my 6'4" and 275 pounds on the F800.

Apart from the comfort issue I was happy with my F800 which I found to be a surprisingly capable bike, performance wise about on par with the boxer.

Though I must say I would never trade back. The boxer has way to many benefits over the F800, better suspension, way better luggage, much nicer engine characteristics and overall quality feel. You do get what your paying for, even if the F800 is probably a little more bang/$.

The milage is superb on the F800 though, never felt hampered by its 16l tank, with the boxer I always feel its a little to small.

In the end its all about taste, test ride properly and then decide ;)
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