95 R1100R Cranks But No Start XXX FIXEDXXX

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SmittyBlackstone
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95 R1100R Cranks But No Start XXX FIXEDXXX

Post by SmittyBlackstone »

Hello, First post here.

I have a 95 R1100R that will crank, but not start.

Was riding through town last December when the engine puttered to a stop at a traffic light and refused to restart.

Upon first perusal online, I found that the HES was usually the culprit, so I blindly ordered one and when installing it, found that the wiring attached to the original HES was frayed at the plug end. I figured I had the correct diagnosis and all would be well.... Not so.
Same symptoms. Crank, but no start. So that leaves out the kick stand, kill, and gear switches.
At one time, it felt like it was going to fire up, but to no avail.

I checked for spark. Excellent spark. Checked compression. Nice , high and even.

So, I moved on to fuel.

Even though the fuel pump was operating when the key was turned on, I decided to change the pump. Same, Same.
Ordered new Fuel injectors..... Same same.

I figured that by this time, I would justify the monies being spent as a sort of "overhaul".
Installed a new pressure regulator. (And THAT is an undertaking that is ridiculous on an ABS bike.) You guessed it.. Same same.

Verified gas out of the injectors while cranking. Had expected a spray of gas in a fine pattern, but what I saw was somewhat less, and I rationalized it as... "well, how much darn gas should it have at idle?".

My next attempt will be to change the fuel filter, even though I was able to blow through it when I changed the pump. I will also reset the TPS, check the cable seating and try starting fluid.

My question to you all is, What else can I try if I am unsuccessful? Any ideas?

I've been working on bikes and cars for 40 years. I currently own over 30 bikes in various states of restoration, and am well versed in all things Motorcycle. However, I am more comfortable with old nasty Japanese bike carbs and points and condensers. There. I gave away my age.

And of course, even with all of these other bikes to ride (I have a bulletproof K100 Brick), I want to ride the R1100R.


Thanks,
Al
Last edited by SmittyBlackstone on Fri Mar 10, 2017 7:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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peels
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Re: 95 R1100R Cranks But No Start

Post by peels »

I was all ready to post the same old responses, but.... you have spark...and fuel pump works AND compression....? rare to get all 3 lol, and still no start.... wouldn't be the kickstand or kill switch.

So, maybe WEAK spark? try a coil? or spark plug wires. or even plugs.... rare but not unheard of... and cheap to try.

OR, weak fuel pressure? fuel filter, you've already thought of that....

check your throttle cables, are fully seated and adjusted(VERY common when removing tank to jostle right side cable out of its hold) , and throttle bodies are opening/closing nicely.

vacuum line off?

all just guesses.





wiring diagram. i'm well acquainted with these after last week lol

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/242/4579 ... 5988_o.jpg
2002 R1150R. Helmets save more lives than loud pipes.
SmittyBlackstone
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Re: 95 R1100R Cranks But No Start

Post by SmittyBlackstone »

Spent some hours futzing with it today. The bike is 2 towns south of here, in a garage with no electricity and limited tools.
Yay, challenge!
I can plug things into my pickup truck, as it has a built in inverter, but am limited to wattage.

I brought:
Can of starting fluid.
The old fuel pump.
New fuel filter.

The first thing I did was spray the heck out of the air filter with starting fluid through the hole left by the removed snorkel. To my surprise, the bike started right up and ran for about 2 minutes. I was able to twist the throttle and get some response, so I knew there was at least SOME fuel pressure. Engine failed to continue to run, but would start and run on gasoline for about 20 seconds then stall. It would start right up again though and do the same thing. I amused myself with fantasies of actually riding this bike today, or sometime in this millennia.
Tapping the HES back and forth to see if timing was why it was running badly proved only that it would start easier when not fully advanced.

I drained/siphoned the fuel tank for what has got to be the 20th time for this project, because I had to bleed the brakes through the ABS system. The ABS system had to be removed because that is actually an easier way to get to the fuel pressure regulator (you know, the one that never breaks). The brake fluid was nasty, so It was a good thing to get it flushed.

Upon removal of the tank and opening the fuel pump cover, I changed the fuel filter even though the old filter was clear.
I left the cheapie fuel pump in there, because it would have been a pain in the butt to change it back to the old one (I am such an idiot)

After reinstalling the tank, connecting the hoses (correctly) and filling the tank again.... Same sequence.
It runs for 2 minutes or so, then peters out. I can rev the engine, but it really takes finesse to get it near 3k rpm. and then it stalls out.

I did notice that the engine seemed to warm up pretty quickly, especially the pipes that branded the inside of my left wrist whilst I was finagling the HES. "Hot", I could hear my mother's voice from about 1966. Only the expletives I exclaimed were louder than the sizzle of fresh wrist meat on the right head pipe.
Tomorrow the old fuel pump goes back in. I don't trust the Chinese pump that is in it.
Does anyone know the other number for the Ford pump that works for the BMW Bosch pump that is priced like it is made out of baby organs?
Defeated, I pointed the GMC North up US1 to the house, where more recalcitrant motorbikes awaited my arrival so I could be mocked by them.
First up was the almost completed 1970 Honda Cl450. The bike that has tried to kill me twice. Get it all dialed in, roll it off the lift, then WHAAAAAAA WHAAAAAAAAAA!, the throttle magically pinned themselves. Good thing I routed those cables according to Sochiro Honda's specifications. After rerouting, all is well. Some small punchlist items, and it is done.

Next up was a 95 Honda PC800 that thinks it is a Harley. Whenever you turned it off, it left a puddle of oil. Fellow PC800 owners are ripe with horror stories about mysterious oil leaks that are impossible to repair, mostly because the labor charge to remove all the bodywork is twice what any 6 PC800s are worth. The bike has been sitting in its puddle for months, because I had too many other things going on (I do have a company to run). With the Cl450 off of the lift (been on there since last July), I rode the PC800 up there and decided to peruse the underside for the presence of oil. Found the oil filter loose! But I know that the Mechanical Gods would not make it that easy for me. Tightened the filter, wiped the underside down, then placed white paper towels on the lift under the engine. Tomorrow morning, if there are no drips, I can use the bike to go to Manhattan to do a service call. All NYC service calls are done on a bike.

Sorry for the long winded post. Had to get it out there.
SmittyBlackstone
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Re: 95 R1100R Cranks But No Start

Post by SmittyBlackstone »

Oh. Thank you for the wiring diagram and you willingness to assist. I really appreciate it.
I absolutely love this bike. Great power, handles well.
Not having it ride-able is disheartening.
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peels
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Re: 95 R1100R Cranks But No Start

Post by peels »

well id say you've narrowed it down quite well. Has to be that youre not getting the right A/F mix.

but what would have happened on the highway to do that....



wish you luck. hate when the cause of problems aren't apparent, especially on these kraut-bikes. :)
2002 R1150R. Helmets save more lives than loud pipes.
SmittyBlackstone
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Re: 95 R1100R Cranks But No Start

Post by SmittyBlackstone »

Stopped by there today. Started it with fluid, ran for less than a minute. It did run on gasoline for some of that time.
The thing I did notice, was that the exhaust got HOT very quickly.

Getting ready for Charlotte, so I won't have too much time to mess with it for a couple of weeks.
I need the rest.
SmittyBlackstone
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Re: 95 R1100R Cranks But No Start

Post by SmittyBlackstone »

Spent Easter Sunday working on the r1100r. Replaced the Chinese fuel pump with the old factory pump.

What I noticed was that, it would start only on ether the first time, then would start on gasoline and only run for a few seconds... And the exhaust got excruciatingly hot in a matter of seconds....

The bike would not rev up and sputtered out after a maximum run of 10 seconds.

I noticed that the exhaust joint dripped some fuel, just a couple of drops...

My next hypothesis is telling me that the catalytic converter may be plugged or melted.

I was defeated after another drain the fuel, open the tank, close the tank, refill the fuel fiasco, so I left and went home. When I get some time, I will remove the exhaust and try to start it.

Have I told you all just how nice my K100 runs?
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Re: 95 R1100R Cranks But No Start

Post by CycleRob »

SmittyBlackstone,

Your bike is old, so component, wire and connector terminal failures become more likely due to corrosion/vibration/wear/deterioration.
My best guesses, not having heard it "running" and not being totally familiar with the older R1100R system . . . .

1--Bad Motronic ECU -or- mostly-broken/frayed external ground wire to Motronic box mounting screw.
2--Bad fuel pump relay contacts (burnt). Switch relay with similar one nearby (if it is possible on R1100R).
3--Worn TPS contacts or it's resistance strip. Unplug connector, test Ohms between the Brown wire and all the others as you work the throttle s-l-o-w-l-y from stop-2-stop..
4--Swap fuel pump and Motronic fuses with others.

.
`09 F800ST

Member since Sept 10, 2001

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SmittyBlackstone
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Re: 95 R1100R Cranks But No Start

Post by SmittyBlackstone »

Thank you for your help. I check in here infrequently and was glad that someone had read this thread.
If it ever gets fixed, I will
The bike has been relegated to the back of the furthest storage garage with all of the "one day" projects, like the frame swap on the two C750A's, Ducati Cadet with the odd internal noise, etc.
However, I checked the fuel pressure with a gauge and it is still low. I'm suspecting a split hose in the tank that I may have overlooked.... 7 times.

Should get to it about mid winter.

I sure do miss riding it.
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Re: 95 R1100R Cranks But No Start

Post by smutny »

You mentioned pulling the exhaust, did you ever do that?

Which exhaust joint was dripping fuel? Between the header and catalytic converter?

Have you checked fuel distributor for blockage or debris?
John Smutny
2000 R1100R
SmittyBlackstone
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Re: 95 R1100R Cranks But No Start

Post by SmittyBlackstone »

Had fuel distributor out, changed the pressure regulator. Checked all passages in distributor.
Dripping between header and cat. Just a couple of drops. Could possibly have been external.

Did not remove the exhaust yet. Have a new (to me) one sitting on the floor near the bike. Was about to remove the exhaust, but I hooked up a fuel pressure gauge and discovered low fuel pressure. My current thinking is that there is a bad hose in the tank. Yes, I know I should have caught that about 9 times ago when opening the tank. LOL.

I recently was at the garage where the R1100R is stored to charge all the batteries on all the bikes. When the weather cools down a bit, I may mess with it again.
That bike is a joy to ride. Greatly missed for sure.

Thanks for reading the thread.
SmittyBlackstone
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Re: 95 R1100R Cranks But No Start

Post by SmittyBlackstone »

Just keeping this going. Have not messed with the bike in months. I will definitely keep this thread informed.
I actually refer to it, as it is the only way I can remember where I left off.

Thank you all. Happy Holidays.
smutny
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Re: 95 R1100R Cranks But No Start

Post by smutny »

Well, since you gave the thread some CPR, it got me thinking.

I'd pull the exhaust to check for blockage. As you have this bike in a storage area, maybe a rodent built a nest in there or stored some goodies in it. It seems everything leading up to combustion is working, but since it dies soon after starting and the exhaust gets very hot, the issue may be in getting the spent gasses out of the cylinders.
John Smutny
2000 R1100R
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peels
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Re: 95 R1100R Cranks But No Start

Post by peels »

smutny wrote:Well, since you gave the thread some CPR, it got me thinking.

I'd pull the exhaust to check for blockage. As you have this bike in a storage area, maybe a rodent built a nest in there or stored some goodies in it. It seems everything leading up to combustion is working, but since it dies soon after starting and the exhaust gets very hot, the issue may be in getting the spent gasses out of the cylinders.

interesting theory!

squirrels hiding walnuts? haha

or like my son when he was 3, jamming a piece of sidewalk chalk into it the pipe. :lol:
2002 R1150R. Helmets save more lives than loud pipes.
SmittyBlackstone
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Re: 95 R1100R Cranks But No Start

Post by SmittyBlackstone »

It would be pretty funny. So, I could have fixed it with the HES, and then while it sat, the exhaust got plugged by vermin.

Yup, Murphy and his horrible Law surely could have screwed me like that :)

Although there are 30 some odd other bikes next to it without this "rodential" malady, the theory is sound.

Been thinking about getting over there to play with it. May do that this coming month.

Thanks for your continued assistance.
SmittyBlackstone
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Re: 95 R1100R Cranks But No Start

Post by SmittyBlackstone »

After being goaded into a "Take Your Most Unreliable Bike Roadtrip", and letting a good friend pick which of my bikes I had to take.....

I brought the R1100R tank to the house to take it apart in a place that has actual lighting rather than a mouth held penlight.
What I found was that the filter's U shaped rubber hose had split, releasing all that wonderful fuel pressure back into the tank. Well enough of it to make diagnosing in the dark impossible, anyway.
Never noticed this before, because when I disassembled the tank the other 400 times, the hoses had dried out and were hard. Plus it was dark. Not making any excuses, well maybe.
Ordered the flexible nylon repair kit and the bike started right up...... Took it for a ride around the block where it began bucking and surging. Nursed it home and found that the previous owner had attempted to wire out the kickstand switch. His electrical talent matched my visual acuity skills, I guess. Repaired the wiring and will road test tomorrow.

Currently setting it up with LED road lights, windshield, tank bag, tail bag, stainless steel cylinder guards, the Big BMW bags (using the lower RS exhaust), RAM mounts, and various bits of electronic charging stuff with associated wiring.

I cannot thank you all enough for your continued interest in this issue.
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