best tire for bmw r1200r

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zackvis
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best tire for bmw r1200r

Post by zackvis »

g'day
I would like to share a bit of tire info .I had metzlers z8 on my bike for about 8000km and had to replace them.
I was not totally happy with them as they were not very good in the wet and did not trust them
too much on dry roads either.I now have changed to pilot road 3's and they are much better
all round ,in corners they are fantastic, i feel i can trust them ,i use to think metzlers are the best tires for BMW but i will stick to my pilot 3,s as they are the best tire i have ever used in my 40 years of biking.
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Re: best tire for bmw r1200r

Post by deilenberger »

While new - I'd agree. Unfortunately new doesn't last forever. Problem I have with the PilotRoad-3, (and 1 and 2) is - they tend to cup up front and grow ridges, and they tend to flat on the rear and grow ridges. The ridges form where the transition from soft sides to hard center rubber takes place. Good part is - this only becomes annoying after a lot of miles (and enough miles you would have already replaced any other tire.) Right now I have about 11,000 miles on my rear tire, and probably 3,000 on my front tire. When my old front tire got to around 8,000 miles - the cupping was bad enough to cause a HUMMMM.. going down the road. The ridges were bad enough that I could feel the bike going over them as I cornered. Part of the flatspotting is undoubtedly caused by riding mostly in central/southern NJ - where I have to head up north to find a twisty road. My rear tire is still more or less round, the ridges aren't awful yet (they became awful sooner on the PR 1 and 2.) All the Pilot Roads are exceptional wet weather tires, and I've yet to find the limit of their grip in dry weather.

But - despite this - I'd agree - they are the best tires I've ever ridden on.
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Re: best tire for bmw r1200r

Post by Dr. Strangelove »

+1
and I haven't had the cupping problem. ON my third set.

What I do notice is that as they age you feel the tar snakes more and more, both front and rear.
Gold standard so far for me though

I am interested in the Pirelli Scorpion though, for maybe better off road capability??

John
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Re: best tire for bmw r1200r

Post by deilenberger »

John,

The cupping may be a result of my braking habits. I don't brake a lot (use the gearbox to control bike speed usually), but when I do brake - I often brake rather hard. That causes distortion in the rubber blocks on the tire and leads to cupping. I suppose if I could figure out how to never use the brakes I could eliminate the problem, but so far - no success. I did learn to flash my brake light when riding in a group if I'm slowing down when one club member came up along side me at about 40MPH (I was almost stationary) because he didn't realize I was slowing down.
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Re: best tire for bmw r1200r

Post by xprof »

I've got 10,000 miles front and rear on mine. No cupping yet on the front and, while the rear is flatting a little it is definitely less flatting than on any previous brand/model of tire I have used. I was looking at them this morning, before this post popped up, and concluded that I would replace the rear at 12,000 miles and maybe the front just to keep everything evened up. I plan to replace them with PR3s.
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Re: best tire for bmw r1200r

Post by Catchina »

Could someone post a picture of cupping, what exactly is that? I'm on my second set of metzlers, they were put on at 8,500 miles and I'm now a bit past 16,000. I do see a flat spot starting on the rear tire, and intend to get pr2 or pr3 in the spring. Both tires will still easily pass inspection and could probably run till next fall. Not a whole lot of twisties around here.
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Re: best tire for bmw r1200r

Post by Jed »

Catchina wrote:Could someone post a picture of cupping, what exactly is that? I'm on my second set of metzlers, they were put on at 8,500 miles and I'm now a bit past 16,000. I do see a flat spot starting on the rear tire, and intend to get pr2 or pr3 in the spring. Both tires will still easily pass inspection and could probably run till next fall. Not a whole lot of twisties around here.
Cupping will be very difficult to see from a photograph even while it's very easy to feel with the hand and pretty easy to see with the naked eye. If you run your hand over a decently worked front tire, you'll feel the trailing edge of each tread block is worn more than the leading edge. The effect is that each tread block seems to have a road-side surface that is flattened and at an angle to the circumference of the tire. The effect is most common on the tread blocks farthest from the center of the tire of the tires.

Image a tread pattern that has a single tread block that sits from side-wall to side-wall, perpendicular to the way the bike moves while rolling, with the front tire supported by only one of these tread blocks at any one time. With the front brake applied, push the bike forward and you'll see the leading edge of the tread block "lift" off the ground as the trailing edge is "driven" into the road surface.

As you apply front brake to a moving bike, the mass of the bike "pushes" on the contact patch. At each tread block there is some local deformation of the rubber. The deformation and abrasion from the road surface affect the leading edge less because that edge is not supported in the direction of the forces involved. The leading edge just flexes out of the way. The trailing edge, being supported by the tread block itself, bears the brunt of these forces and in doing so wears more quickly. So the trailing edge wears more quickly while the leading edge wears more slowly leading to an angled facet on the tread block itself. Repeat this process a few million times and you'll find "cupping" aka "scalloping" of the front tire tread blocks.

Aggressive front braking, aggressive cornering and under-inflated tires all lead to faster wear / greater "cupping" of the front tire. Riders who don't use the front brake as their primary tool for deceleration, will not experience cupping unless they corner like a banshee on under-inflated tires. Aggressive cornering and heavy front-brake use are both common causes of cupping. It's near impossible to avoid cupping of the front tire when you ride a moto the way I understand they are designed to be ridden. The explanation for why this happens from aggressive cornering is more complicated but still related to similar deceleration / deformation / abrasion effects.

The exact opposite happens at the rear tire. In this case the majority of the force this tire sees are acceleration which wears the leading edge before the trailing edge.

I find my tires are worn out-of-round or out-of-profile, long before the tread bars show. And if I run higher-than-BMW-recommended pressures, I can minimize the cupping until after the tires are out-of-round or out-of-profile. It's a slow but steading degradation thing. New tires are great once they are scrubbed-in, by 4k miles they are worn to a level that I can feel while riding spiritedly. By 8K miles, the tires are gone but still legal and serviceable if I'm willing to slow down. By 12K miles I'm ready for new rubber so that I can get another "performance award" even though there is plenty of tread left.

Riders who regularly ride more aggressively than I may want to change their tires around 6K miles and use more standard inflation pressures. I'm a pretty heavy front brake guy (no linked brakes) that puts about 12K miles a year on my R12R. I ride pretty quickly but not stupid fast (at least not IMO). I'm generally about +15 on the highway, +30 on exit/entrance ramps and +20-25 on the twisties. YMMV

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Re: best tire for bmw r1200r

Post by Catchina »

Jed, thanks for the detailed explanation. It makes sense. I haven't noticed it on my bike but I do have linked brakes and don't get to ride hard on twisty roads very much so the cupping effect would probably be slight.
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Re: best tire for bmw r1200r

Post by Dr. Strangelove »

Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.
A solid yes to cupping, I change my answer. Don, I read your description of your riding style and thought, that's how I ride also.
I had an old front tire and I checked it out and there is cupping. The trailing edge is clearly worn more than the leading edge, you can see the directional arrow. I have gotten over 14k miles out of a PR3 front, but don't recall if it's this one or not. I think maybe not.
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Re: best tire for bmw r1200r

Post by deilenberger »

That's about where they start to sing.. and that drives me right to new tires. Can't stand a bike that hums louder as I go faster.. :)
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Re: best tire for bmw r1200r

Post by Martyn »

It does rather depend on your definition of "best".
Tyre development is ongoing & over the years I've been lucky enough to try many makes/types at work for evaluation in police use.
Our current tyre is Dunlop RoadSmart, & we're evaluating RoadSmart2 - a cracking tyre IMHO, so I've purchased a pair for my personal RT.
Having said that, none of the big manufacturers sells a "bad tyre", it's just finding the one that suits you, factoring in cost, wear & how it feels. They all give grip & mileage that is phenomenal compared to say twenty years ago.
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Re: best tire for bmw r1200r

Post by David R »

I don't know how you folks are getting the miles out of the tires. ALL of my bikes have worn tires by 4,000 miles or so. I have never had a set last over 7,000 miles and that is down to the wear bars. Some only go 6,000 down to the wear bars. I usually use factory recommended pressure or close to it.

On my 12 R1200R I have 6,000 on the factory Z8 metzlers. The rear is almost down to the wear bars and I can feel it cornering due to the profile change.

The front has a little more tread but acts as worn and sings.

I have had PR2 on my RT and Versys. Good tires that wear the sides out before the middle on the front. I have had PR3 on the RT and my Versys. Great feeling tires right to the end but I am still getting about 6,000 miles out of a tire.

Like the guy above said, the PR3 in the rear does not get as much of a flat spot.

Running factory 36/42 on my R1200 so far. It seems a little high to me and the tires get warm but not even close to hot (warm enough?) like other bikes I have. PR3 will be going on the bike as soon as the rear hits the wear bars.

I liked the roadsmarts on other bikes but they do not like tar snakes especially wet.

Love the R with metzlers, probably be better with PR3. Right now we have snow and cold so all I can do is talk about it.....
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Re: best tire for bmw r1200r

Post by Acpantera »

Had many a tire on this bike, The ones that inspired the quickest riding and the thinnest chicken strips were the cheapest(Continental conti-motions), at $170 a set delivered I got real good wear out of the front but only 5000 miles out of the rear. For about $50 more I have a set of Bridgestone bt023's that took some getting used to but are wearing like Iron,(should get 10k out of them) They just don't give me that confident feeling around corners.Had Metzeler z6's on it, they felt great,but cost nearly $290 a set and lasted only 6k and had some funny wear on the front too. Conti road attacks also felt good, sticky when dry but greasy when wet, $250 a set 6k miles. The Bridgestone 021 were a nice tire @ $220 and lasted about 7k. I think I will buy another set of conti motions when the stones are done, Then hopefully a new R1200R wet head will in my garage and I'll have a new tool to wear out tires with.
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Re: best tire for bmw r1200r

Post by deilenberger »

David R wrote: Running factory 36/42 on my R1200 so far. It seems a little high to me and the tires get warm but not even close to hot (warm enough?) like other bikes I have. PR3 will be going on the bike as soon as the rear hits the wear bars.
Must be a newer R12R? The original factory spec for 1 up, no luggage is 32/36.. the 36/42 was for fully loaded with a fat lady on the back. IMHO - it's too high. The ride becomes harsh and the tire never gets up to temperature on cold days.

Also note - the pressure is specified with the tire temperature at 68F (20C?).. add or subtract ~1 to 1.3 PSI per 10 degrees F tire temperature difference from that (lower when colder, higher when hotter.) That's based on what I observe on my TPMS - which gives me both tire air temperature and pressure. It's rough, but close enough to get you into the ballpark. IE - if it's 38F you can expect to see 29-30PSI in the front and 32-33PSI in the back. If it's 98F - figure on 35-36 PSI front and 39-40 PSI rear. It is slightly non-linear, but - again - close enough to get you into the ball park of correct pressure for the tire temperature.
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Re: best tire for bmw r1200r

Post by redwing »

Almost 7k ...hoping to get 10k plus...try to keep 36 psi plus in both. I don't see much of the outside tire being used but I like the turns.

Image

Image

And just in case you have forgotten what a silver R1200R looks like ....
Image

Robert
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Re: best tire for bmw r1200r

Post by omg1010 »

Robert, on the above pic your bike looks white but not silver ...

I am on my second set of PR3 (on my R1200S). Front and rear last about 9000 kms and I have not noticed any problems/singing so far. It is a great tire which I would always buy again.

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Re: best tire for bmw r1200r

Post by Dr. Strangelove »

deilenberger wrote:That's about where they start to sing.. and that drives me right to new tires. Can't stand a bike that hums louder as I go faster.. :)
My 1150 arrived w PR 1 s back when. They sang. But I have not noticed any tunes in the PR 2 s nor the 3 s, nor any other tire along the way. I always wear earplugs with music going through, so maybe I am drowning it out.
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Re: best tire for bmw r1200r

Post by Jed »

deilenberger wrote: Also note - the pressure is specified with the tire temperature at 68F (20C?).. add or subtract ~1 to 1.3 PSI per 10 degrees F tire temperature difference from that (lower when colder, higher when hotter.) That's based on what I observe on my TPMS - which gives me both tire air temperature and pressure. It's rough, but close enough to get you into the ballpark. IE - if it's 38F you can expect to see 29-30PSI in the front and 32-33PSI in the back. If it's 98F - figure on 35-36 PSI front and 39-40 PSI rear. It is slightly non-linear, but - again - close enough to get you into the ball park of correct pressure for the tire temperature.
Don,
Can you clarify this statement above? Are you saying that the recommended tire inflation pressures from BMW are defined to a specific temperature?

While I agree that changes in ambient temperature will affect air pressures in tires, inflation pressures are based on ambient temps. So if it's 40° F outside when we check our "cold" tires, the inflation pressure should be (your pressure) XX psi. If the ambient temp is 90· F outside when we check our "cold" tires, the inflation pressure should be the same (your pressure) XX psi. In other words, there is no temperature correction that is applied to inflation pressures for "cold" tires. In this case a "cold" tire is defined as a tire at ambient temperature, ie not warmed up from having been ridden.

Drastic variations in ambient temps during the day (very cold mornings giving way to warm afternoons) can lead to higher than desired inflation pressures as the temperatures rise over +40° F. But this is a different issue. Pressures also vary depending on how hard the tires are worked, with more aggressive riding warming the tires (and hence the air inside them) more due to heat generating effects of tire flex. It's also well known that slightly lower inflation pressures will allow a tire to warm-up more quickly while slightly higher inflation pressures will tend to slow and, to some extent limit, tire warming.

There are lot's of interesting games to play relative to variations in inflation pressures to modify how the tires behave and perform at various operating pressures and temperatures, but none of these variations are normalized to a particular temperature. That's not how inflation pressures (or compressed gasses) work.

cheers,
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Re: best tire for bmw r1200r

Post by mogu83 »

I love the winter (non-riding*) season.

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*Before the controversy starts. 'Non-riding' refers to weather conditions when traveling on a two vehicle isn't the preferred means of transportation for most mortal people. This usually results in people spending excess time riding the keyboard which is sometimes informative, often confusing, but always entertaining.
It doesn't take into account people that have no other means of transport, people suffering from a testosterone rush or tough guys.
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Re: best tire for bmw r1200r

Post by redwing »

omg1010 wrote:Robert, on the above pic your bike looks white but not silver ...

Brgds
Oliver
Oliver ... my bike is silver ... last time I checked....it really is silver.

Robert
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