02 R1150R - Throttle Sync

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Decaf
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02 R1150R - Throttle Sync

Post by Decaf »

The Problem:
The tank visibly shakes at idle.

The suspected problem:
I did not sync the throttle bodies correctly.

The background:
I have 02 R1150R with 59K miles. I purchased it 5000 miles ago from a police department and it was used as a training bike (read: dropped many times).

When I first purchased the bike, the idle was set at 1.5, and the tank shook like a bucking bronco.
I completed a valve adjustment, changed all fluids, removed the gold idle screws, cleaned them and reset idle at 1.1RPM.

I proceeded to sync the throttle bodies using my carb sync gauges and realized I dont know what I am adjusting. The only screw I see is the gold idle screw. I have a hard time believing this is what I adjust to ensure the throttles open in a sycronized manner. On a carbed bike, there is an idle screw and the screws to adjust the butterfly valve openings.

What should I be adjusting when I adjusting when sycing the throttle? The gold idle screws? A visual would be wonderful as the service manual does not show me a picture!

Thanks for any insight.
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Re: 02 R1150R - Throttle Sync

Post by Kirya »

- Check spark plugs and ignition coils,
- Make sure your throttle bodies do no sip air (all seals are tight) and have good, not worn axes
- Check the presence of blue paint on throttle body stop screws on both sides and TPS sensor bolts, if paint is missing somewhere - you should consider doing STEP 1.5 below.

Here is the procedure compiled by roger 04 rt on bmwmoa forum, it should cure your problem if all above is checked:

Although most everyone in this forum has a good procedure for synchronizing their R1150's throttle bodies, I recently reviewed the full BMW Repair Manual procedure, used it recently, and found it excellent for achieving good balance and proper cable tension.

The main problem with the BMW procedure is that it’s written for someone with a BMW test station. Below is the procedure, directly from the manual but with edits for clarity and to replace BMW specific and outdated terminology. There are also some Ed. Notes that I’ve added with practical clarifications.

BMW R1150RT Repair Manual
Procedure 13 60 110
Checking throttle-cable play, checking and adjusting idle speed and throttle-valve synchronization

- Notes and Attention (in red) from BMW Repair Manual
- Ed. Notes and other edits by me for clarity--e.g. Choke changed to Fast Idle Lever, Carburetor changed to Throttle Body
- Headings (e.g. STEP 1, …) added by me for clarity


STEP 1: Preparation
- Test-drive the motorcycle until the engine is warm.
- Remove the left side panel.
- Remove the right side panel.
(Ed. Note: BMW Manual indicates remove small access panel in fairing but mine is glued in)

Oil temperature: ..................at least 90 C (194 F)

Ed. Note: Adjuster is at the Handlebars
- Push back rubber caps on throttle and fast-idle cables.
- Use the adjusting screws to increase the play of throttle and fast-idle cables.
(Ed. Note: Two turns will create about 1 mm.)

Fast Idle cable free travel: ........................................approx. 1 mm (0.0393 in)
Throttle cable free travel: ........................................approx. 1 mm (0.0393 in)

Ed. Note: Adjuster are at the Throttle Bodies
- Turn the adjusting screws to increase the play of the cables for the left and right throttle valves.
Throttle valve cable free travel: ....................................... approx. 2 mm (0.0787 in)
(Ed. Note: Two turns of the TB adjuster is about 2 mm.)


Ed. Note: STEP 1.5: Zero=250 mV Procedure
-Resetting the throttle stop screws is specifically cautioned against by the BMW procedure.
-Procedure might be useful if someone has already tampered with TB stop-screw adjustment.
-This should be considered a last resort to solve other TB sync problems.

Simplified Zero=250 mV Procedure
--Loosen all throttle and fast idle cables
--TBs and BBSs must be clean
--Set TB BBSs to 2.5 turns (just a starting point) and make them equal.
--Center and fully close both TB butterfly valves
--Set TPS to 250 mV and lock TPS screws (no further adjustment of TPS required)
--Open left TB and count stop screw turns after contact until TPS reads 340 mV. Lock left stop screw (no further adjustment).
--Set right TB stop screw open same number turns as left.

--Start engine, warm up to at least 3 bars.
--Balance at idle using only right TB stop screw, do not touch BBS. RPM does not matter
--Lock right TB stop screw.

--Follow remainder of this procedure

STEP 2: Adjust Idle Speed and Left/Right Idle Syncronization
- Connect hoses of your throttle-body vacuum-synchronization tool (e.g. Twin Max, Harmonizer) to the vacuum ports on the left and right throttle bodies.
- Start the engine.

! Attention: Do not allow the engine to idle for longer than is necessary, because the trim panels near the exhaust could be damaged.
(Ed. Note: Use a fan to move air past cylinder heads and oil cooler.)

- Adjust idle speed by turning the air bypass screws while checking that the throttle bodies are balanced.
Idle speed: ........................................ 1,100 ±50 rpm
(Ed. Note: A hot idle speed above 1100 rpm, results in leaner AFR readings during cold-starting, this based on data from GS-911 logs from several R1150R/GS/RTs.

Note: Make sure that both throttle valves are closed.
(Ed. Note: firmly resting on the throttle stop screws)

! Attention: Do not tamper with the sealed stop screws of the throttle valves, as otherwise the idle-speed volume flow will have to be reset by the manufacturer.


STEP 3: Remove Free Play from Throttle Body Cables
- Carefully turn the adjusting screw of the left throttle valve and reduce play until the reading of the vacuum synchronization tool changes.
- Turn the adjusting screw very slightly in the opposite direction until the reading returns to its original value.
- Tighten the locknut to secure.

Note: Make sure that the reading does not change when you tighten the locknut. Adjust throttle cable play at throttle valve so that no play is perceptible, but the throttle valve reliably contacts the stop screw (no strain on cable).

- Adjust the right throttle valve in the same way.

Note: Zero play can cause the throttle valves to rattle.
(Ed. Notes:
-One quarter to one half turn of the TB adjuster results in 0.25 to 0.5 mm slack.
-Considering this warning, and the instructions above to "adjust so that no play is perceptible" if the throttle cable adjusters on the throttle bodies require adjustment later in Step 5, either the left or right (as appropriate) should be turned clockwise, so as to not remove the "imperceptible play”.
-The BMW procedure says to use engine rpm or engine vacuum-balance to indicate when the throttle cables are fully tensioned and have started to move. A much more sensitive indication can be had by monitoring the TPS voltage between pins 1 & 4. When the voltage starts to increase, the throttle is moving. This will work for the left TB, Fast Idle Lever and Throttle Twistgrip. Because the adjuster for the right TB doesn't move the TPS, it won't work for that adjustment.)


STEP 4: Adjust Throttle and Fast Idle Lever Free Play
- At the right handlebar, use the adjusting screw to adjust play of the throttle cable.
Play of throttle cable: .....................................approx. 0.5 mm (0.0197 in)
(Ed. Note: One turn of the adjuster is about 0.5 mm.)
-Push the rubber cap into position over the adjusting screw.
(Ed. Note: Remember to secure the locknut.)

- At the left handlebar, use the adjusting screw to adjust play of the fast-idle cable to zero.
- Push the rubber cap into position over the adjusting screw.
(Ed. Notes:
-Remember to secure the locknut.
-Some fast idle cables have stretched to the point that zero play cannot be achieved. A spacer can be fabricated and added between the end of the cable and bottom of the adjuster ferrule.
-This results in the throttle-valves being opened about 4 degrees and results in a TPS voltage of about 1000 mV in the mid-detent position. Based on many R1150 GS-911 logs, most Fast Idle Levers are not adjusted this tightly. It is quite common to see as little as 0.96-1.28 degrees of throttle advance with the Fast Idle Lever set, which may explain many cold-starting problems.
-You may find that the mid-detent idle speed it too high with no slack. If so, add slack to suit your preference.)

- Move the handlebars all the way from left to right and check the settings. Make sure that engine speed does not vary when the handlebars are moved in this way.

STEP 5: Check and Adjust Left/Right Synchronization at Off-Idle Throttle Positions
- Repeatedly open the throttle gradually and increase engine speed from idle to approximately 2,500 rpm to check throttle-valve synchronization. (Readings shown by synchronization tool must increase and decrease together). If necessary, correct by turning the adjusting screws of the throttle-valve cables at the throttle body.
(Ed. Notes:
-As mentioned above, either the left or right adjuster should only be turned clockwise, otherwise the adjuster will be over tensioned and play will be reduced to zero.
-Determine which adjuster to turn clockwise as follows: if the vacuum-balance tool shows more vacuum toward the left throttle body, turn the right TB adjuster clockwise. Likewise, if the vacuum-balance is toward the right TB, turn the left TB adjuster clockwise.
-When you tighten the locknut, the TB cable will be tensioned a slight bit more, anticipate this by slightly under-adjusting the tension.)

Note: Make sure that when the throttle grip is released both throttle valves return to their fully closed positions.


STEP 6: Completion
- Tighten the locknuts and recheck throttle body balance.
- Seal off the vacuum bores or reconnect charcoal canister purge hoses.
- Reinstall Left/Right Fairings, assembly is the reverse of the disassembly procedure.
(Ed. Note: I love that BMW phrase, “assembly is the
reverse of the disassembly procedure.”)
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Re: 02 R1150R - Throttle Sync

Post by kirby »

Decaf wrote:The Problem:
The tank visibly shakes at idle.

The suspected problem:
I did not sync the throttle bodies correctly.

The background:
I have 02 R1150R with 59K miles. I purchased it 5000 miles ago from a police department and it was used as a training bike (read: dropped many times).

When I first purchased the bike, the idle was set at 1.5, and the tank shook like a bucking bronco.
I completed a valve adjustment, changed all fluids, removed the gold idle screws, cleaned them and reset idle at 1.1RPM.

I proceeded to sync the throttle bodies using my carb sync gauges and realized I dont know what I am adjusting. The only screw I see is the gold idle screw. I have a hard time believing this is what I adjust to ensure the throttles open in a sycronized manner. On a carbed bike, there is an idle screw and the screws to adjust the butterfly valve openings.

What should I be adjusting when I adjusting when sycing the throttle? The gold idle screws? A visual would be wonderful as the service manual does not show me a picture!

Thanks for any insight.

Look you probably don't need to do a complete re-rig of the throttle system. If the throttle stop screw on the TPS side(left) has not been tampered with your in the ball park and just hook the syn stuff up and syn using the stop screw on the on the right side. BBS screws will be close at 1 to 1-1/2 turns out so I wouldn't even worry about them. Just make them the same.

If the left/right stop screw (will have blue mark from the factory and you can tell if its been moved)..my guess... if the bike was maintained by a dealer which is likely if it was a police machine it will not have been tampered with or you'll have to get a good digital meter and set the stop screw using a mv value.(if it has been moved)
Cable play is done at the bars. Should have a little play. Fast idle is the same but set an RPM at the bar adjuster. Mine is set at around 1400 when warmed up on the low setting.

Not rocket science unless you make it that way! If you do ,take it to a dealier for a re-rig.
Last edited by kirby on Mon Jun 04, 2018 5:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 02 R1150R - Throttle Sync

Post by sykospain »

...at least all that's not complicated.....
This is the list of people I'd trust with my bike
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Re: 02 R1150R - Throttle Sync

Post by sweatmark »

Don't forget to check RHS throttle cable fitting is seated correctly.
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Re: 02 R1150R - Throttle Sync

Post by Sunbeemer »

Kirby said"
Look you probably don't need to do a complete re-rig of the throttle system. If the throttle stop screw on the TPS side(left) has not been tampered with your in the ball park and just hook the syn stuff up and syn using the stop screw on the on the right side
[-X That is wrong! The factory paints those screws so you'll know if they've been tampered with, and you should not adjust them EVER unless you're disassembling the throttle body (even then it's not usually necessary). All the stop screws do is adjust the angle of the butterfly valve plate in the throttle body and they are adjusted at the factory to make the valve plate perpendicular to the axis of its throat at idle. Adjusting it will probably throw your throttle body out of whack.

The Big Brass Air Screws only control bypass air flow at idle, so once you've got the vacuum equal at idle with those, then you just need to adjust the Right Hand Side cable ferrule (located above the right throttle body) at some higher rpm (~3500 is fine) to equalize the vacuum on both cylinders. It's that simple. Unless the bike has been thoroughly messed up, all else is probably OK.
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Re: 02 R1150R - Throttle Sync

Post by kirby »

Hey man don't blow a fuse!

I wouldn't respond to a "shame on you" post normally but...listen ...man is asking for help not doom and gloom from the internet BS. Its your machine you can do what ever you want. My response is an effort to help was from MANY years on BMWs.
Done this procedure (w/'100% success) for years.

If you will just read what I wrote, here let me help you..... "(will have blue mark from the factory and you can tell if its been moved"..) and You have to disassemble to re bush the TB. (done it several times. If they have been moved you then set up the TPS with a volt meter and syn with the other side to get them even. the same way the factory does it. All done with mv value.

I think it should be done with the stop screws if they have been messed with. Then they will be balanced at idle since there is a bit of slack needed in the cable system.
Then check at( I use cruise RPM ) and may need small adj with the cable adjusters.
My rockster is still balanced and not needed to be adjusted since I set it up last over 100,000 miles ago after shaft bushing replacement.
Last edited by kirby on Mon Jun 04, 2018 10:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 02 R1150R - Throttle Sync

Post by swamper »

Well said Kirby
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Re: 02 R1150R - Throttle Sync

Post by Sunbeemer »

Hey Kirby, this is what I read you recommended to Decaf in your 1st post:
If the throttle stop screw on the TPS side(left) has not been tampered with your in the ball park and just hook the syn stuff up and syn using the stop screw on the on the right side.
Then you reiterated with,
If you will just read what I wrote, here let me help you..... "(will have blue mark from the factory and you can tell if its been moved"..) and You have to disassemble to re bush the TB.
To me this meant you were telling him to adjust the RHS painted throttle stop screw to balance the cylinders when that probably isn't necessary, recommended, or correct unless he was re-bushing the TB, which he didn't say he was. He just wants to balance his throttle bodies and stop the shaking. Your post was bad advice, own up to it. Decaf said he is new to BMW's and might be mislead into thinking that is the right way to balance the cylinders when it is not. I feel we have a responsibility to our fellow Beemer riders to share accurate, helpful information and not lead them astray, and I am making an attempt here to prevent him from buggering up a factory setting.

The excellent instructions Kirya posted above clearly state,"
Resetting the throttle stop screws is specifically cautioned against by the BMW procedure.
-Procedure might be useful if someone has already tampered with TB stop-screw adjustment.
-This should be considered a last resort to solve other TB sync problems.
Like you said, it's your bike and you can do what you want to it, but it's less than helpful to advise other people to screw theirs up.

BTW, Sweatmark probably offered the best advice in this thread,
Don't forget to check RHS throttle cable fitting is seated correctly.
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Re: 02 R1150R - Throttle Sync

Post by kirby »

Your a funny guy, own up to it.

First of all I didn't advise him to do anything, just answered his question:

"What should I be adjusting when I adjusting when sycing the throttle? The gold idle screws? A visual would be wonderful as the service manual does not show me a picture!"

What did you offer?

Then told him that if the blue paint was in tact (even on the TPS) he is in the ball park. That procedure that was posted was a old copy of a guy in the RT community. Very convoluted. I wouldn't wish that on any person.

I have done TPS replacement throttle body rebuild and re syn on several occasions in the 300K or so miles and many years of ownership and riding oil heads. I know exactly how to do it in a simple way that works perfect. Whole thing can be done in an hour.

Set up the TPS, then set the idle voltage at the stop screw and duplicate on the other side. I use the electronic syn box to get them even, but some like to count threads. Raise the rpm to about cruise and use (if necessary) cable adjuster on the right side to make it even.
No advice was given..nada..I just told him how its done it you have to reset everything. Including going to a dealer.

BMW manual doesn't "recommend" the owner perform a bunch of stuff, for example, almost anything pertaining to the brakes or even changing tires yourself!


Good grief!

Its a very simple procedure and only need a good meter and some tools. That is what makes the oil head such a great machine, very easy to maintain.

How many have you done?

Think a little before you start throwing insults.
Last edited by kirby on Tue Jun 05, 2018 5:23 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: 02 R1150R - Throttle Sync

Post by Boxer »

Take it to a BMW motorcycle mechanic. It's basic stuff but you'll never get it right following directions from an internet forum.
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Re: 02 R1150R - Throttle Sync

Post by towerworker »

You need to first check the antifreeze prior to any TB sync.
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Re: 02 R1150R - Throttle Sync

Post by swamper »

Yep
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Re: 02 R1150R - Throttle Sync

Post by Kirya »

I’m with Kirby here, it is not a rocket science to reset TPS, TB stops and synch all of it if your comfort levels allows it. If not - take it to the mechanic, you do not need any help from intranets to make that decision.

On side note- that procedure works, I recently tested it on my bike and cured my throttle response in 40 mins total, including TPS reset, TB stops - all of it. I never touched boxer TBs before.
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Re: 02 R1150R - Throttle Sync

Post by Sunbeemer »

Kirby asked me,
What did you offer?
I offered him the following correct advice,
The Big Brass Air Screws only control bypass air flow at idle, so once you've got the vacuum equal at idle with those, then you just need to adjust the Right Hand Side cable ferrule (located above the right throttle body) at some higher rpm (~3500 is fine) to equalize the vacuum on both cylinders. It's that simple. Unless the bike has been thoroughly messed up, all else is probably OK.
I don't know what you mean by "funny", nor do I care. Sorry that you felt insulted, that was not my intent. :arrow:
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Re: 02 R1150R - Throttle Sync

Post by kirby »

I offered him the following correct advice,

The Big Brass Air Screws only control bypass air flow at idle, so once you've got the vacuum equal at idle with those, then you just need to adjust the Right Hand Side cable ferrule (located above the right throttle body) at some higher rpm (~3500 is fine) to equalize the vacuum on both cylinders. It's that simple. Unless the bike has been thoroughly messed up, all else is probably OK.

That statement makes me wonder if you have ever done a synchronization procedure? or just read (or copied) that off the internet.

This crap about "don't ever touch the blue painted screws is internet BS.

Do you have a BMW shop manual?
I do, and nowhere in that manual are the throttle stop screws mentioned. Nowhere in that manual is there a synchronization procedure for the throttle bodies even mentioned.
The blue painted screws just indicate that the TBs and TPS have been properly set.
The procedure that was posted in this thread was made up by the guy who did it, not by BMW.

You accused me of giving people a bogus procedure and that WAS your intent.

BMW has no published procedure for synchronization of the TBs so your the one that is putting up internet rumors and calling it fact.

I'm not particularly sensitive to this type of rhetoric. I just try and help someone if I can.
In this case I did take offense 'cause you gave offence. Quit perpetuating internet rumors, there is nothing magic about messing with the throttle stop screws.
I know how its done and in this case the BBS are irrelevant. (because they are).
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Re: 02 R1150R - Throttle Sync

Post by Sunbeemer »

I've done several throttle body synchronizations this way and my bike runs smooth as butter. I read this procedure in my Clymer's manual along with the cautions against adjusting the painted set screws. I thought everyone knew about that and posted these cautions for the newbie.

Since you've made this a personal issue that I don't think is helpful to either the OP or this forum, I'll no longer publicly reply to your taunts.
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Re: 02 R1150R - Throttle Sync

Post by kirby »

Grow up
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Re: 02 R1150R - Throttle Sync

Post by CycleRob »

First, I have only seen ONE post from Decaf, the originator. All these other posts with lots of "instructions" are somewhat helpful, but failed to provide the asked for visual or video to show what is what. One instructed:

STEP 3: Remove Free Play from Throttle Body Cables
- Carefully turn the "adjusting screw" (CR:You mean the cable adjusting ferrule?) of the left throttle valve and reduce play until the reading of the vacuum synchronization tool changes.
- Turn the adjusting screw (Wrong again) very slightly in the opposite direction until the reading returns to its original value.
- Tighten the (cable adjusting ferrule) locknut to secure.

My advice to newbees and Decaf, whose 16 year old OilHead very likely has had an H-D/Kawasaki police dept mechanic unlock and turn those blue painted screws, only to find it ran even worse, is to get BMW experienced, professional help! Not having the proper tools and not knowing what things are or how they work should be a HUGE RED FLAG to anyone trying to "adjust" things, as if the correct settings can be found. They will NOT be found! In that experimental process they very likely will break the (powder metal "forged") cable adjusting ferrule's threaded end, adding a throttle cable replacement to the costs.
For a really messed up TPS setting, throttle stop screw, TB synch . . . setting it right-as-can-be is 15 . . . . 20 minutes tops for a real mechanic in the know.
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Re: 02 R1150R - Throttle Sync

Post by Mr.Frequent »

Gotta go with CycleRob on this.
He has a vast knowledge base,the experience to go with it; detailed enough that it could be published.
For anyone not familiar , look through his postings. Top notch,sir.
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