Motorcycles aren't about logic, I should buy a BMW, right?

Topics related to the ownership, maintenance, equipping, operation, and riding of the R1150R.

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JML
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Motorcycles aren't about logic, I should buy a BMW, right?

Post by JML »

Currently I ride a Kawasaki Vulcan 750, which is really a great mid size cruiser. It's also my first bike, and I guess, kind of like a high school sweetheart, no matter how good of a match it is, I'm left wondering what else is out there.

If I used logic to pick transportation, I'd probably end up trading my bike and car (VW GTI) in for a Honda Fit, or something equally economical, practical, and boring. If I really did limit myself to a bike, I'd end up with a Ninja 250 with a top box, because realistically, 75% of my miles are commuting to work, and the "fun" miles are mountain twisties. Both of which a baby Ninja will be great for, cost me < $2000 used, and get 70+ mpg.

I've always wanted a naked BMW boxer, though. Walking by the rows of bikes as a kid, it was the toaster tanks and cylinders sticking out in the wind that caught my eye, not the shiny chrome Harleys or slick plastic supersports. Does it make sense to buy one, just because it's what I want?

In my shopping, I'd found my favorites to be the R1150 R and the Honda Interceptor VFR800, with the Suzuki SV650 and Kawasaki Ninja 650R as good smaller choices. The VFR and R1150 R both fill a similar niche, despite one being "naked" and the other "sport". They'll both carve up mountain roads, or take a few bags and go cross country. The VFR is probably a bit faster and definitely cheaper for a similar vintage used model.

The catch is, if I buy a VFR, I'm still going to want a naked boxer. If I buy an R1150 R, it's unlikely I'll want a plastic sport/standard/touring bike.

So, I'm guessing most of the folks here understand what I'm talking about, and I appreciate your reading my brain dump. Now for the question:

Despite all that, I'm not really the kind of guy to let my emotions get ahead of my pocket book. I'm thinking an R1150 is the best compromise between the older tech on the R1100, and the high price of the R1200. I'm looking for an R1150 R, preferably ABS, with less than 15,000 miles for around $6-7000 (lower the better, obviously). Does this seem unreasonable?
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Re: Motorcycles aren't about logic, I should buy a BMW, right?

Post by RWBVFR »

I enjoyed reading your brain dump. I found it very much like my thinking. (You should be afraid, very afraid) Anyway, to add to your confusion, I own a 2002 R1150R with ABS and lots of other goodies with 34,000 trouble free miles. Just last year I bought the 25th anniversary VFR. Now I own the 2 best bikes on the planet. They epitomize the best of their class. What you need to do is get both so that you won't face that quandary about what bike should have I have gotten. Hope this helps! :D
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Re: Motorcycles aren't about logic, I should buy a BMW, right?

Post by ruddy »

Seems to me you've done a great job of talking yourself into the 'R. Look around at used ones, there are some good deals out there. I bought my '03 nearly two years ago for $4,900 with Hyper Lites, standard and high seats, lowered pegs, Motolights w/AutoSwitch, Signal minder, an accessory outlet, Chase Harper tank bag, BMW touring winshield and a BMW battery charger. Would I go back to a Japanese bike after a Beemer? Nope!
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Re: Motorcycles aren't about logic, I should buy a BMW, right?

Post by big papa »

Buy one now and then get the other in a couple of years. I'm on my 3rd BMW in 5 years(Rockster, KR, R1200RT). I also had a Y2K Hayabusa and before that a HD FXDX. I want to try out all types of bikes while I'm not too old. Life is good and there are a lot of great bikes out there to try. I can't afford more than one at a time, but I can swing a different one every coupe of years. One could do this on a budget by buying used instead of new...
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Re: Motorcycles aren't about logic, I should buy a BMW, right?

Post by JML »

RWBVFR wrote:I enjoyed reading your brain dump. I found it very much like my thinking. (You should be afraid, very afraid) Anyway, to add to your confusion, I own a 2002 R1150R with ABS and lots of other goodies with 34,000 trouble free miles. Just last year I bought the 25th anniversary VFR. Now I own the 2 best bikes on the planet. They epitomize the best of their class. What you need to do is get both so that you won't face that quandary about what bike should have I have gotten. Hope this helps! :D
But, but, how do you decide which one to ride in the morning? I can only have one pair of shoes per activity, otherwise I could never decide which to wear (the tall motorcycle boots or the low motorcycle boots, it's too much!)
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Re: Motorcycles aren't about logic, I should buy a BMW, right?

Post by NAIAD »

Okay, time to throw a little monkey wrench in the gearbox.

I've ridden a VFR (couple of them actually) a fair amount and agree with most of the moto mag reviews, it is an outstanding bike with a lot of features and quality. But it seemed a bit too refined in a way. Does that make sense? Probably not, but they seemed to lack a bit of character, IMHO. The one thing I didn't care for on the later model Honda was the VTEC system which seems to get in the way of a smooth (but spirited!) riding style.

I also owned a 2004 50R model for 3 years, and thought it was very likely the BEST all round motorcycle I've ever owned or ridden in my 45 years on two wheeled machines. Certainly was not capable of slicing and dicing the curves as well as the VFR, but seemed to have a bit more character and definitely more long-haul comfort. But...it never quite grabbed me the same way some other bikes did in the past.

The alternative that I just got a few weeks ago (and one that might be worthy of your consideration) is a 2004 R1100S. Has most of the long haul capability (3800 miles in 9 days on the ride home), but with a sportier look and feel than the R bike. Still has those cylinders sticking out in the airstream that you like, a bit better wind protection than the 50R, has the shaft drive advantage over a VFR, and the factory sidecases are more capacious (no muffler intrusion on the left side like the 50R).Admittedly not as comfortable as an R bike, but every bit as comfy as a VFR.

Also have to +1 on big papa's advice...buy something you like used, then try something different in a couple of years.

Now. Did I add to the confusion?

Sorry! :twisted:

But good luck in your quest!

Bill J.
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Re: Motorcycles aren't about logic, I should buy a BMW, right?

Post by JML »

ruddy wrote:Seems to me you've done a great job of talking yourself into the 'R. Look around at used ones, there are some good deals out there. I bought my '03 nearly two years ago for $4,900 with Hyper Lites, standard and high seats, lowered pegs, Motolights w/AutoSwitch, Signal minder, an accessory outlet, Chase Harper tank bag, BMW touring winshield and a BMW battery charger. Would I go back to a Japanese bike after a Beemer? Nope!
A deal like that I wouldn't have to think about, even if it needed new tires or something. Where did you find that?

Colorado front range seems to have outrageous asking prices on bikes. Some of it is probably the "it's free to put on ad craigslist so I'll ask a lot" syndrome so typical asking prices can be KBB retail +$500. Dealers are even worse, asking KBB retail +$1500. NADA tends to price bikes even lower, so if you trust them, the prices are even crazier. One dealers has a used 2004 R1150 R non-ABS with 23,000 miles and is asking $9000.

They seem willing to negotiate down to $500 or so above KBB. I talked a dealer down to a $200 more than KBB retail (when taking into account their generous offer on my trade-in) on a dirty and scratched 2001 VFR with 24,000 miles. They've had the bike on their lot for five weeks now. Two weeks ago I left telling them they have my number, and should call me if they change their minds. Not to mention the very clean 2001 VFR with 10,000 miles they are consigning for $6200, about $1200 more than KBB retail. They've had several lower offers, but the seller won't take them.

Anyways, I would be very pleased if a new bike was costing me $3-4000 after selling/trading my current one. That means $5-6000 for the new one.
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Re: Motorcycles aren't about logic, I should buy a BMW, right?

Post by JML »

NAIAD wrote:Okay, time to throw a little monkey wrench in the gearbox.
I've ridden a VFR (couple of them actually) a fair amount and agree with most of the moto mag reviews, it is an outstanding bike with a lot of features and quality. But it seemed a bit too refined in a way. Does that make sense? Probably not, but they seemed to lack a bit of character, IMHO. The one thing I didn't care for on the later model Honda was the VTEC system which seems to get in the way of a smooth (but spirited!) riding style.
I know exactly what you mean. I rode the VFR, and it was nice, and when I put on the throttle the power just kept building and building, and when I put on the brakes the bike stopped. That was a 5th generation one, which I think I prefer to the 6th (keeping in mind price). I mean, it's a 100hp sport bike, so it isn't boring, but yeah, it didn't have a whole lot of character. The first time I got on an R bike and revved the engine the torque rotated the bike. That was interesting, and not surprising when I thought about it, but I've only ridden V and parallel bikes, so I wasn't expecting it.
NAIAD wrote: I also owned a 2004 50R model for 3 years, and thought it was very likely the BEST all round motorcycle I've ever owned or ridden in my 45 years on two wheeled machines. Certainly was not capable of slicing and dicing the curves as well as the VFR, but seemed to have a bit more character and definitely more long-haul comfort. But...it never quite grabbed me the same way some other bikes did in the past.
I don't need or want something that I can get the absolute peak of performance out of. I'm unlikely to go more than 5 mph over the speed limit, which even my cruiser (which handles better than most modern cruisers) can do on our twisty mountain roads we have here without any problem.
NAIAD wrote: The alternative that I just got a few weeks ago (and one that might be worthy of your consideration) is a 2004 R1100S. Has most of the long haul capability (3800 miles in 9 days on the ride home), but with a sportier look and feel than the R bike. Still has those cylinders sticking out in the airstream that you like, a bit better wind protection than the 50R, has the shaft drive advantage over a VFR, and the factory sidecases are more capacious (no muffler intrusion on the left side like the 50R).Admittedly not as comfortable as an R bike, but every bit as comfy as a VFR.
If I run across an S I'll climb on and see how it goes. I'm 5'3", so most sports bikes are much to tall for me. Anything over a 32" seat height isn't really workable. I could probably ride it, but one fumble at a stop, and it's tipping over. Even 25" cruisers can be a pain, when they have forward controls that I can't quit reach.
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Re: Motorcycles aren't about logic, I should buy a BMW, right?

Post by JML »

big papa wrote:Buy one now and then get the other in a couple of years. I'm on my 3rd BMW in 5 years(Rockster, KR, R1200RT). I also had a Y2K Hayabusa and before that a HD FXDX. I want to try out all types of bikes while I'm not too old. Life is good and there are a lot of great bikes out there to try. I can't afford more than one at a time, but I can swing a different one every coupe of years. One could do this on a budget by buying used instead of new...
I've just been going to dealers and riding anything they'll give me the keys to. I mean, how else am I supposed to know what I like? Last weekend there was an organized demo ride at a local shop, and I road a new Yamaha Raider 1900. That is a huge bike, and certainly nothing I want to own, but I didn't know that before I road it.

In a straight line that bike feels faster than the 1150R or VFR. Those two build power and accelerate pretty smoothly. At about 3000 RPM (who knows, there's no tach) the big V-twin just punches you in the chest, and the bike takes off. I don't know if it would win in a drag race against something that weighs 2/3 as much, but it can completely unload the front suspension, and it's a stretched chopper.

I can see how somebody might like something like that. Now if they can just fix the exhaust pipe that burned my calf, and the backfiring every time I squeezed the clutch...

The only problem I see with buying a new (used) bike every few years is that I'm too cheap.
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Re: Motorcycles aren't about logic, I should buy a BMW, right?

Post by NAIAD »

Ah ha! Then an S bike might not work for you so well.

I'm taller, but with a somewhat short inseam measurement relative to my tallth.

The S model fits my 31 inch Levi's just fine, can stand over the saddle at stop lights to stretch a bit, so it's not as high as some pure sport bikes (916, etc.), but it is a little bit tall.

I sold my R to a fellow who is about your height and he started looking right away for a used, stock low seat to replace the $argent saddle I'd installed. You might want to look at that stock low seat option as well if you should decide to leap into the BMW world with a 50R.

If you go shopping the net for a bike, there's a website that can search all Craigslist sites nationwide and pulls up bikes listed on fleabay as well. You can input specific bike, model, year, and it puts them all on one page. That's how I found my S (for a good price) in Louisville, KY. Prices vary hugely (as you know) across the country, and you're right that the sellers on CL seem to ask more than the bike is really worth. Fr'instance...I paid 7500 for my S (very clean, 5700 miles), similar bikes ranged in price all the way up to 11,500 in my 5 months of watching for the correct year, color, equipment and price. Unfortunately I deleted the bookmark I had on that site and can't remember it right now...perhaps tomorrow when all the synapses are firing in the correct order again. Maybe.

Good luck with the hunt!

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Re: Motorcycles aren't about logic, I should buy a BMW, right?

Post by FloridaBeakster »

JML wrote:Does it make sense to buy one, just because it's what I want?
Yes.
-Mike

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Re: Motorcycles aren't about logic, I should buy a BMW, right?

Post by wncbmw »

If an opposed twin BMW is what you want, you are on the right track with the R1150R. It is my 5th beemer and the best so far. I am staying clear of test rides on the R1200R for purely financial reasons! ;)

However, I would not let a non-ABS bike at a great price slip away. At the risk of opening the whole ABS can of worms, I have ABS and like it only because I don't notice it. As far as I know, it has not activated in the years I have had it, except when I practice braking. However, the increased complexity of the system and the fact I am out of warranty concern me. Not to mention the irritating noises (which I have learned to ignore). If you are looking used, that might be an issue for you also.

Keep in mind, even non-ABS brakes on the 'R' are great!

Have fun shopping but you won't regret getting the Beakster!
'02 in black - the real BMW color! (Now gone to a new home)
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Re: Motorcycles aren't about logic, I should buy a BMW, right?

Post by Hawkman »

If you want it, and you can ride it.... then buy it. Life is too short not to enjoy yourself a little.

Plus there are deals to be found... got my 03 non-abs on eBay for 6K with 8k miles... And wncbmw is right the non-abs brakes are great!

buy it! Now!
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Re: Motorcycles aren't about logic, I should buy a BMW, right?

Post by ruddy »

JML wrote:
ruddy wrote:Seems to me you've done a great job of talking yourself into the 'R. Look around at used ones, there are some good deals out there. I bought my '03 nearly two years ago for $4,900 with Hyper Lites, standard and high seats, lowered pegs, Motolights w/AutoSwitch, Signal minder, an accessory outlet, Chase Harper tank bag, BMW touring winshield and a BMW battery charger. Would I go back to a Japanese bike after a Beemer? Nope!
A deal like that I wouldn't have to think about, even if it needed new tires or something. Where did you find that?
I found it on eBay. I had a saved search for motorcycles w/in 250 miles of my zip code. I established correspondence with the seller asking for more photos, etc. When his reserve price wasn't met, he relisted it with a lower reserve. He told me what it was ($5,000), and I bid it. I got outbid by a turkey who defaulted (He had a history of that.). When I lost, I sent a note to the seller to let me know if the deal fell through. He did, and we made arrangements for me to fly over to pick it up. He also told me that his bottom line was $4,900, because they were moving and he needed to sell it. So, that's the story. Over the winter, I found three trail bikes and a three-bike trailer on Craig's List. You just have to keep checking every day.
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Re: Motorcycles aren't about logic, I should buy a BMW, right?

Post by NAIAD »

Okay, here's the link for that search engine I mentioned....

http://www.jaxed.com/cgi-bin/moto.cgi?veh=bmw

Hope that helps you out....

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Re: Motorcycles aren't about logic, I should buy a BMW, right?

Post by JML »

NAIAD wrote:Okay, here's the link for that search engine I mentioned....

http://www.jaxed.com/cgi-bin/moto.cgi?veh=bmw

Hope that helps you out....

Bill J
Thanks, I hadn't seen that site before. I'm subscribed to a bunch of RSS feeds searching for BMWs on the nearby craigslist sites. Now if only cycletrader and powersportsnetwork had feeds, I'd be set.

Now that I've made up my mind about what I want I just have the long wait until I find the right deal. I hope I don't change my mind before I find something. I got a call this afternoon, and I've won a hat from the demo Saturday, when I rode the Raider 1900. They'd better not have used Moto Guzzi or Triumph Speed Triple or something when I go to get my hat.
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Re: Motorcycles aren't about logic, I should buy a BMW, right?

Post by mcollect »

Be real careful if they have a Guzzi, they appeal to most like a BMW only they are much sexier. I have two Guzzis and two BMWs. They are just as reliable as BMW but a bit more exotic and more fun in the twisties.
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Re: Motorcycles aren't about logic, I should buy a BMW, right?

Post by scottybooj »

yes you should buy it if you want it. you wouldn't buy a bike you didn't like if it were inexpensive, would you? :?:

i'm quite sure you can find a bike in your price range...without a doubt.

it's a great bike. buy it and ride it like you stole it.
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Re: Motorcycles aren't about logic, I should buy a BMW, right?

Post by iowabeakster »

You asked a philosophical question that according to my philosophy is flawed. I subscribe to the Ayn Rand school of "objectivist" philosophy. I say that motorcycles are ENTIRELY about logic.

here it goes:

Joy is purpose of life. Motorcycles bring me Joy.

Buy one, nothing is more logical. :D
Last edited by iowabeakster on Thu Jun 12, 2008 4:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
I was dreaming when I wrote this, forgive me if it goes astray...
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Re: Motorcycles aren't about logic, I should buy a BMW, right?

Post by busithoth »

Right.

I just bought a 2002 r1150r stock (non-ABS) with 4400 miles on it for $6000.
It looks like it just came from the showroom. I didn't wait to sell my 1983 Honda first. That would have been more logical, but I didn't want to lose out.

I just got it back from the dealership for the 6000 mile service (now I can take long trips with a clear conscience). I'm not much of a sampler (4th bike in 16 years, and the last one didn't last a year) and provided the spline's hold, I expect to keep this bike for the foreseeable future.
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