Cam Chain Tensioner Upgrade

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baltm604
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Post by baltm604 »

Strike that, reverse it!

the old style is 17mm, the new is 15mm. just put a 15mm socket on the head of the tensioner, if it fits your good. If it is too small, upgrade...

Bill
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Post by duke »

Big thanks to all of you who found the time to answer!
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Post by hirschg »

So let me get this straight you only need to do the upgrade on the left side? and only if your engine is noisey? I have an 03 with about 4500 miles. Mine seems pretty smooth and quite to me. Should I do up grade?
I always go by the thought if it's not broke don't fix it................Jerry
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baltm604
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Post by baltm604 »

Jerry,

your are right, if it works fine don't fix it.

Here is my stab at an explanation:

On either side of the engine is a spring loaded piston about 1/2" in diameter, this is a cam chain tensioner. it's job is to push against the chain that runs around the engine and turns the cams that open and close the valves.

The right side tensioner pushes up on the bottom of the chain. because it is on the bottom of the engine, it sits in oil all day long and moves very easy.

The left side tension pushes down on the top of the chain. The issue with the early cam tension was that it did not get enough oil, and would not move up and down as easily as it should.

The result would be lot's off rattling as the chain would slap around since it was loose.

The replacement tensioner gets oil easier, and therefore does not stick as much.

This is the kind of thing that may turn up early, or show up 20 - 30k later. My bike was very sensitive to how much oil was in it. Also a cold engine on start up might rattle some before everything is niced and loose.

So as you point out, if it ain't broke....

But don't be suprised that once the engine is broke in that chain starts rattling a little:)

Bill
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Post by hirschg »

Bill, Thanks for the explaination I'll keep an ear open...............Jerry
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desmophil
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chain tensioner? more than one problem

Post by desmophil »

Hi guys,

I remember this topic from years ago and I think the problem may not be resolved because not everyone is talking about the same symptoms.

Some claim to suffer rattle on a cold start, others on a hot restart but not on cold and some when idling and hot with a few K's on the bike - or variations of the aforementioned symptoms.

My story is this. The bike is an R1150R - built in December '03 and purchased new in January '04. From new, on a hot restart (never on cold start) and depending on how long the bike has been sitting on the centre stand the bike suffers a bad rattle (very subjective) from the LH tensioner area that lasts a few seconds. The dealer uses what is now called Castrol Edge Sport 25W-50. It used to be called Formula R 25W-50. Within the first year the dealer replaced both tensioners under warranty. However, apparently the bike already had the updated tensioners with the 15mm head and it rattles just the same and never on a cold start.

According to my stealer the part number for the LH tensioner is different from that of the RH tensioner and yes the 1200 LH parts are the same as the R1150R numbers.

What I want to find out is whether the '04 tensioner with the 15mm head is the same as the current replacement part for both the 1200s and 1150s.
This question was too hard for the blokes at the stealership. Does any one know? I don't want to purchase newies if they are the same as the oldies.
Cheers.
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iowabeakster
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Post by iowabeakster »

desmophil asks,
What I want to find out is whether the '04 tensioner with the 15mm head is the same as the current replacement part for both the 1200s and 1150s.
This question was too hard for the blokes at the stealership. Does any one know? I don't want to purchase newies if they are the same as the oldies.
Cheers.
You possibly have the first replacement. I can't tell you the size of the "bad" replacement (15 or 17mm). Hopefully somebody else can and save you the trouble.

But with Mixr's easy pictorial (THANKS MICK), you sould be able to pull your tensioner out, and see whether it has the internal spring (2 piece), the good one.

Boxer's quiet motor has changed my mind about my noisy motor, I don't care if they all do that, I want quiet.
I was dreaming when I wrote this, forgive me if it goes astray...
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Post by mad1150 »

You're right Iowa, I want quiet too.

Every time I start it, I think 2-cylinder! John Deere Diesel 2-cylinder that is.

I think I'll do mine this winter or next spring.
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Post by riceburner »

Those of you who have done this.... did you do anything to the assembly before fitting it? Fill it up with oil/grease or anything for example?

I have the parts now (call that spring tension?? cos I don't!) and will hopefully fit them on Sunday.
Non quod, sed quomodo.

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Post by DJ Downunder »

Those of you who have done this.... did you do anything to the assembly before fitting it? Fill it up with oil/grease or anything for example?

I have the parts now (call that spring tension?? cos I don't!) and will hopefully fit them on Sunday
There is a spring in the old parts..but no spring in the new parts..Right?

DJ
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More research needed

Post by desmophil »

There seems to be a certain amount of confusion over this LH tensioner problem and I am one of the confused (ps - see my recent post).

The workshop staff at my local dealer are nice blokes but don't have the depth of knowledge to be able to offer the overall sequence of supercessions to this component.

As far as I can gather, but please correct me if necessary because I am not confident of this, the original 1150 LH tensioner comprised 3 parts (not counting the washer) - a cylinder, a spring and a one piece piston.

It then superceded to a cylinder, a stepped piston (with built in spring?) and some sort of seat thing for the piston. Perhaps sold as a unit as p/n 1131 2325 563.

It then superceded (maybe in late 2003) to a single component p/n 1131 7671 723 (that is currently in my bike and doesn't work effectively).

This part number is now discontinued and replaced by 2 parts. A cylinder p/n BC-1131 7688 629 and a stepped piston p/n BC-1131 7656 922.

Can anyone confirm or correct this sequence? I want to find out if the current 2 parts amout to being more effective than the single unit sold as p/n 1131 7671 723 or do they add up to the same thing?

Hmmm ?
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Post by Arbreacames »

Desmophil,
I can confirm everything that you wrote. I can add the following:
1) kit 11 31 2 325 563 worked well, but it cost more that $200. I have been using this one for more than 3 years - 20k miles.
2) 11 31 7 671 723 + 23 12 7 667 733 supposedly did not help
3) 11 31 7 688 629 + 11 31 7 656 922 apparently works fine and is pretty cheap.
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Post by Boxer »

Y'all just gave me a headache.
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Post by riceburner »

DJ Downunder wrote:
Those of you who have done this.... did you do anything to the assembly before fitting it? Fill it up with oil/grease or anything for example?

I have the parts now (call that spring tension?? cos I don't!) and will hopefully fit them on Sunday
There is a spring in the old parts..but no spring in the new parts..Right?

DJ
Yup. I just think the spring tension isn't terribly strong.

Fitting it in about 5 mins!
Non quod, sed quomodo.

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Post by CycleRob »

Bad news: the new quietness of the shimed old left tensioner spring mod seemed to fade away. First the old noise came back as soon as it got hot, then it returned permanently to about half the noise volume of old, where I am now. When I saw this post again I knew it was time.
So . . .
I just ordered the new left side tensioner from ChicagoBMW and the price went up about $10 on one of the two main parts and even a few cents on the washer. He said BMW adjusts their prices almost monthly and wasn't surprised. Also said "We sold a LOT of them", and he had all my needed parts in stock. I added on 2 oil filters and an air cleaner for about a $106 total.

Looking forward to a click & clatter free ride, especially since the totally gutted and rewelded stock muffler (donated by Beemeridian) has added an exhaust note you can actually hear over the wind. Thanks again Dave.
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Post by riceburner »

Mine went in pretty easily - apart from a) trying to get the thing threaded against the spring tension, managed it in the end; and b ) getting the thing tight! I did it up as tight as I could given that the socket kept falling off the bolt head and just jope it's tight enough!

Bike does seem a fair bit quieter!
Non quod, sed quomodo.

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Post by CycleRob »

Well!!

After ordering it from Chicago BMW over the phone, I got my new tensioner 3 days later and installed it soon after. The order included 2 oil filter change kits at $13.18 ea, an Air Filter at $15.12 and the 3 parts for the tensioner assembly that together make the tensioner cost $62.40. Add $7 for shipping. The -20% discount amounted to $25.98.

Before I put the new one in I took a video with the new and old units comparing their spring tension, which, it turns out, only plays a small part in it's dramatic functional improvement. What really makes a difference is a hydraulic lash adjuster built into the movable, spring loaded, steel inner piston. Looking down inside the piston you'll see (in the video) a partially exposed check ball, identifying it as a hydraulic lash adjuster assembly that uses pressurized engine oil. THAT is why this new tensioner works!! The lash adjuster does not allow the piston to flutter In&Out with the cyclic rotational pulses generated by the camlobes opening/closing the valves. It holds it at the maximum tensioner extension, keeping the chain uniformly tight. We have a winner!!

To download the 11.1 MegaByte video, click on the link below. Then, just above the rectangular green "DownLoad" box you'll see an input box where you must input the 3 security letters that are seen as a picture. After you enter them and press the green "DownLoad" rectangle - - - The screen changes. Wait about 25 seconds for the sponsor's intentional "read my ads" time delay for the download to begin. Here's the Video Link

EDIT: So far, 17 people have downloaded the video. Seeing it will make you feel MUCH better about spending at least $71 to replace your inferior stock left side camchain tensioner.
Anyone going to GypsyRR's fall miniBash - - - If you bring the new tensioner with you I will install it for free while you watch.
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desmophil
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At last - no embarrassment

Post by desmophil »

It used to be soooo embarrassing on a hot restart. Rattle knock etc.

So after following this topic for years (first started viewing in 2003 before purchase), a couple of posts and one earlier upgraded tensioner, I have finally fitted the latest LH cam chain tensioner as fitted to the R1200s.

Oh what joy and so far so good. Like MIXR stated you can get to it with 3/8 drive although it would be good if the head was a little taller so the socket can seat more securely.

It's a pity that BMW took 5 goes to get it right but there's nothing like a happy ending.
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Re: Cam Chain Tensioner Upgrade

Post by Keppelj »

Blackadder, I sent you a pm regarding your method above. Question is, what happens to the stiff-ish injector fuel line when you raise the otherwise detached TB? You didn't mention pulling that line of the TB.
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Re: Cam Chain Tensioner Upgrade

Post by r1100rt »

Hi All,
I live in the UK and have ridden BMWs for the last 7 years. I have an R1100RT which i have owned for 5 years. It now has 112,000 miles on it, and the motor has never been apart. It runs brilliantly, and sounds perfect. I have heard a lot about this chain tensioner problem, but have never met anyone here who has experienced it.
I wonder if it is a problem with higher ambient temperatures. You guys probably get much higher temps there than us. Typically I normally ride in anything between 12 degrees C up to a max of 30 degrees. The normal temp here in the summer is around 20-25 degrees C.
I have another RT which has 41,000 on the clock. I bought it with a very slight 'tap' from the centre of the motor which only showed itself when the engine was warm. The tap was very light, and I thought it may be a little end. But these motors are bullet proof. So, I removed the engine and stripped it.
The 'tap' was the big end on the right hand side breaking up. The crank was 'blued' and the shells were toast. If I had ridden that bike then it would have thrown a rod.
After looking at your posts re the chain tensioner, I noticed that this bike has the 'old' 17mm tensioner.
During the re-build I carefully inspected the tensioner but found that all was well. The spring is very powerful and would keep the chain tensioner blade in full contact with the chain without any hydraulic 'help' . I turned the engine over by hand during the build up and with the tensioner removed, there was a really load 'clack' as the valve spring tension pushed the cam round against the chain slack. It must be this noise that you guys must here when the motor is running. I am really glad I haven't experienced it as the noise even while turning by hand was frightening. I thought some thing had 'come apart'
Really like the forum, a great place to get info and ideas. I must admit I personally think the RT is a cracking bike, and even though I am involved in the motorcycle trade here, I have not ridden a bike that betters it.
Martin.
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