Quick Disconnects (again)

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rdsmith3
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fuel line disconnect leaking

Postby rdsmith3 » Fri Jun 16, 2006 7:31 am

I had my bike serviced yesterday. When I got home from the 100 mile trip from the dealer, I noticed that fuel was leaking from one of the disconnects.

1. I thought they might have damaged the O ring. I replaced the O ring with a spare I had. It still leaks. (Note: the O ring I used as a replacement was several years old, but I kept it in a sealed plastic bag.) I ensured that I lubed the O ring before assembly. I also ensured that I depressed the disconnect before joining the two parts.

2. It does not leak when the disconnect is disconnected. It leaks only when I securely join the two ends together. The bike starts and runs just fine, so fuel is going through the connection. But when the engine is off I get still get drip ... drip ... drip

3. The clamps do not appear to be the source of the leak. It is the disconnect, and it only leaks when connected.

Any ideas on what the problem is? Maybe the disconnect itself is bad?

Thanks.
Bob
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leno

Postby leno » Fri Jun 16, 2006 8:00 am

If it only leaks when conected then it must be the down stream side that has the problem. I would replace the whole thing.

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rdsmith3
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Postby rdsmith3 » Fri Jun 16, 2006 8:13 am

The downstream side is the one with the O ring. So you think I should replace the whole disconnect?
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rdsmith3
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Postby rdsmith3 » Fri Jun 16, 2006 10:58 am

The OEM disconnects are made by Colder. I found a source for them that is cheaper than the dealer
http://www.mcmaster.com

Here is my order. It ships today.

Products
Line Quantity Part Number Description Unit Price Total Price � Ships
1 2
Each 5012K672 Acetal Quick-Disconnect Tube Coupling Socket for 5/16" Tube Id, 1/4" Coupler, Shut-Off Valve $6.90 $13.80 � today

2 2
Each 5012K712 Acetal Quick-Disconnect Tube Coupling Plug for 5/16" Tube Id, 1/4" Coupler, Shut-Off $6.78 $13.56 � today

3 1
Pack 9464K16 Viton O-Ring AS568A Dash Number 011, Packs of 100 (Same as 9464K342) $7.54 $7.54 � today

$41 including tax and shipping for both disconnects. BMW charges $16 for the socket, $13 for the plug, and $2 for one O ring.

I will also replace the clamps with fuel injector clamps. Is it 5/16" size?

For the future, I am going to replace the plastic disconnects with brass ones. I don't like the idea of plastic parts keeping the gas from saying hello to the hot engine.
Bob
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Wass
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Postby Wass » Fri Jun 16, 2006 5:15 pm

RD-
This exact thing happened to mine. I think if you look real real close at the body of the fitting, you will notice a very fine hairline split.
My dealer tells me he's seen quite a few of these cheap plastic fittings fail.
I just bypassed the whole shootin match with a hunk of pipe and some hose clamps.
At the 12K service I'll pop for the stainless versions.

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Boxer
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Postby Boxer » Fri Jun 16, 2006 7:19 pm

Call the dealer and tell them they caused the leak and they need to replace it....For free.

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touchton
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Postby touchton » Fri Jun 16, 2006 7:22 pm

Wass wrote:At the 12K service I'll pop for the stainless versions.


Where do you get the stainless versions?

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Postby philr » Fri Jun 16, 2006 8:27 pm

I had a similar problem with the plastic fuel connectors. About 2000kls after the last (and final) dealer service I noticed a strong fuel smell after a ride. I found a leak at the connection - it was definitely the connector, not the clamps. Because I had previously read other posts about the type of connector fitted (thanks guys) I knew how to disconnect them without damaging them. I found a fine crack in the male connector. The dealer admitted that sometimes they do fracture them during disconnection and I reckon they must have flexed mine which allowed it to crack in time. But they wouldn't cough up the price of new fittings. I replaced them rather than getting into a fight with them over Aus$50.
Next time I will find a stronger alternative - but the dry-break idea is worthwhile retaining for safety.

beemerphile

Postby beemerphile » Fri Jun 16, 2006 8:55 pm

touchton wrote:
Wass wrote:At the 12K service I'll pop for the stainless versions.


Where do you get the stainless versions?


Swagelok has them, but you have to put them together from parts to get the hose barbs on the assembly.

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Postby Wass » Sat Jun 17, 2006 6:56 am

I don't have the stainless ones yet, was only made aware of them from my dealer.
I can only imagine what they cost.....

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rdsmith3
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Postby rdsmith3 » Sun Jun 25, 2006 5:07 pm

Here is a picture of the new disconnects and clamps. The disconnects are the same as OEM except white instead of black.

Image
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Fozzie
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Brass Fuel Line Connectors

Postby Fozzie » Mon Jun 26, 2006 5:50 am

These are the go! Solid brass and quite cheap. I have ordered a set, but follow this thread for all the info you need:

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthre ... +connector
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rdsmith3
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Postby rdsmith3 » Mon Jun 26, 2006 7:46 am

I plan to install the Omega ones in the future, but they are back ordered for a while.

http://www.omega.com/pdf/tubing/couplings/ft-lcseries/ft-lcseries.asp
Bob
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Postby HiOSilver » Mon Jun 26, 2006 10:53 am

I just received these from Smallparts.com:
Image
Image
Image
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rdsmith3
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Postby rdsmith3 » Mon Jun 26, 2006 3:50 pm

HiOSilver wrote:I just received these from Smallparts.com:


Is there a replaceable O ring on these? There seemed to be some debate about these on the ADVRider forum. I did not read the whole thread.

They look nice. Show us some pics when you get them installed.

Anyone else think that the fuel lines are too short, and the factory disconnects are too darn hard to get off? You have to somehow get the clamps off and pull the barbed connectors out without damaging the fuel lines. The whole disconnect set-up -- plastic disconnects, crimp-on clamps, and short fuel lines -- is not German engineering at its finest. Or maybe it is the triumph of bean counters over engineers.
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Postby popgazer » Thu Jun 29, 2006 2:52 am

rdsmith3 wrote:Anyone else think that the fuel lines are too short, and the factory disconnects are too darn hard to get off? You have to somehow get the clamps off and pull the barbed connectors out without damaging the fuel lines. The whole disconnect set-up -- plastic disconnects, crimp-on clamps, and short fuel lines -- is not German engineering at its finest. Or maybe it is the triumph of bean counters over engineers.


What :smt013 :smt013 :smt013 :smt013 were those engineers thinking when they designed this piece of crap.
About 6 months ago, the clamps came loose, gasoline was jetting out of the hoses. I tightened them up and the leak stopped.
But yesterday when I started smelling gasoline I asumed it was the same problem again. I was only about 5 miles from home but sitting in stop-and-go traffic and 98 F temperature.
The plug of the quick disconnect had cracked and was pissing gasoline that was coming right down on the red hot pipe. I was so angry.
A piece of low quality plastic between the fuel line and a red hot pipe!!!! How can a bike this expensive run so much risk?
I called the dealer and asked if they have a repalcement. This is a dealer who won't stock up even a license plate light bulb. They said they have a lot of that quick disconnect in stock. Bad sign of course. The plug alone is $16.95. I asked if they have a better alternative, because if I replace that same piece with another one I am getting rid of the bike pronto.
Then I remembered this thread. Now I have a couple of brass disconnects in order from small parts.
Frankly, for the first time -ever- I am not feeling comfortable riding this bike. Now I know it can leave me stranded somewhere 100s of miles away from home. So, it can be costly and totally ruin a good time.
I used to take BMW as one of the best engineering around. Not anymore. I even think they are recless for leaving people run a risk of fire. Plus, I read all over the internet that dealers advise riders to have a spare quick diconnect because they can break. Oh give me a break.
Nobody is sure perfect, but she practiced tirelessly !

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rdsmith3
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Postby rdsmith3 » Thu Jun 29, 2006 7:08 am

I love this bike, but the fuel disconnect design -- the whole package -- is really poor. The other big design fubar is the use of a conventional battery (in my 2002 model) that requires maintenance, but doing the maintenance requires you to remove the gas tank. And every time you remove the gas tank, you risk damaging the fragile fuel disconnects.
Bob
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Postby owldaddy » Thu Jun 29, 2006 2:32 pm

I really like the look of those brass QD's, I went to the link on ADVrider and there seems to be a problem with the "O" rings swelling. Making it impossible to reconnect them, once disconnected. Unless you have a couple days to let the "O" rings dry out and shrink back to normal size. The other options are pretty expensive, except some more plastic ones made for aircraft. I am of the mind to exclude plastic QD's, but thought perhaps if these are rated for aircraft, they should hold up pretty well. Anyone have any experience with these? http://www.wicksaircraft.com/catalog/pr ... index.html
Don
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Postby popgazer » Thu Jun 29, 2006 3:59 pm

owldaddy wrote:I went to the link on ADVrider and there seems to be a problem with the "O" rings swelling. Making it impossible to reconnect them, once disconnected.


There seems to be no final verdict on that problem as some people report they do and others say they can disconnect and reconnect with no problem !
Is that your impression, too, or is there something I am not reading ?
Nobody is sure perfect, but she practiced tirelessly !

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rdsmith3
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Postby rdsmith3 » Thu Jun 29, 2006 4:09 pm

popgazer wrote:
owldaddy wrote:I went to the link on ADVrider and there seems to be a problem with the "O" rings swelling. Making it impossible to reconnect them, once disconnected.


There seems to be no final verdict on that problem as some people report they do and others say they can disconnect and reconnect with no problem !
Is that your impression, too, or is there something I am not reading ?


I thought the same thing -- no final verdict. Also, it was unclear to me if you can replace the O rings, as you can with the cheap plastic disconnects.
Bob
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